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| Big territorial male leopards; Only territorial male leopards starting 60 kilograms and over | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 29 2012, 11:54 PM (256,440 Views) | |
| chui | Feb 18 2016, 07:18 AM Post #1261 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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A big male leopard shot in the Aberdare mountains of Kenya in 1968. The photo is from the book, "Shoot Straight and Stay Alive" by professional hunter Fred Bartlett. The skull of this leopard is listed in the Rowland Ward Records, measuring 273mm long and 178mm wide (17.75 inch total score). Bartlett said this was one of the biggest leopards he had seen in the mountain forests of Kenya with a heavily built body, he estimated its weight at 200 to 220lbs. Bartlett appears to be a reliable source and this was probably a genuine 180lb+ leopard. Any leopard with a skull measuring 17 inches or more should be considered huge. As mentioned before, the leopards of the Rift Valley highland forests in East Africa were highly prized by trophy hunters. Of the leopard populations for which some appreciable data on weights has historically been recorded (ie. East/Southern Africa and India) these East African mountain leopards are IMO the most impressive. Apart from Iran where a few 200lb leopards have now been recorded most genuine 200lbers recorded historically have come from the highland forests of East Africa. The heaviest being a 212lb leopard with a 18.76 inch skull shot on Mt Kenya in 1964 which is probably the heaviest leopard reliably recorded in my opinion. PH Hamilton who carried out much research on leopards in Kenya gives a weight range for male highland forest leopards in the country as 60-95kg, the upper limit probably being derived from this specimen. Kenya banned hunting in the late 1970s after which you would think these leopards would have thrived. In actuality, poaching became rampant in places like the Aberdares and Mt Kenya after the hunting ban and the leopards in these forests along with their prey became much scarcer. Thankfully the country has recently made great efforts to preserve its forests by putting up fences to better protect the wildlife and prevent conflict with people. The fence around the Aberdare mountain forests was completed in 2009 and now once again the leopard population there seems to be thriving. Getting rid of trophy hunting is great IMO but only if proper conservation measures can be put in place afterwards. Another big male recently photographed in the Aberdares. Looks like a big robust leopard, with a massive well developed head.  I probably sound like a broken record but notice how small the ears look, a sign this a huge leopard.The leopards which I think are the biggest (Central African, Persian, East African highlands, Sri Lankan) all seem to show this trend. If you look at the well photographed Sabi Sands bunch (Mvula, Camp pan etc), you'll notice they usually have relatively big ears and less developed heads. Not a hard and fast rule but interesting nonetheless. Edited by chui, Feb 18 2016, 07:22 AM.
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| 1977marc | Feb 18 2016, 06:08 PM Post #1262 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Hi Chui were are the pictures? Vin Diesel male was officially weighted by vets, several times. I must check it again but I thought between 83-96 kg. First time he was not in hus prime yet. 180-210 pounds |
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| chui | Feb 19 2016, 11:23 AM Post #1263 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Hey marc, the pictures should be visible, maybe try a different browser. I'm sure Vin Diesel is a big leopard but I would like to see some more details before I'm convinced he's a genuine 200lbs. Frankly, I think such high weights are very rare and freakish for Southern African leopards where the normal max is probably about 180lbs. Even if he was weighed at around 200lbs that does not mean that was his actual weight, keep in mind a big leopard can have more than 30lbs of meat in the belly! This is the main problem with weight data that usually isn't addressed. As a result, if his adult weight varied from 83-97kg on different captures, the low end is probably closest to what his true weight is unless that is from when he was very young (under 5 years). The reason why I consider the high weights of the East African leopards more reliable is because they are corroborated by impressive skull measurements. It's not hard to believe that leopards with skulls of measurements similar to male Pantanal jaguars will weigh 200lbs. And though Vin Diesel certainly looks like a big bulky leopard, he just doesn't match the big males from some of these other regions IMO. His head looks pretty unimpressive and though quite bulky the body doesn't look all that well proportioned. He sort of reminds me of the Wagdoh male tiger who also looks awkwardly bulky. This is just my subjective view but as I've seen and read more about leopards over the years the less impressed I've become with the well observed Kruger leopards. In my opinion they are small fry compared to the real heavyweights from some other parts of the world. In fact I would extend that to African savanna leopards in general as well as Indian leopards. There certainly are some truly impressive individuals like Anderson for example but these are far and few. To further illustrate my point here is a close up of the Vin Diesel male. Picture is from his very own facebook page (See Here) and his identity can be confirmed by the spot pattern and scar on the muzzle. This picture provides a good view of his head with the mouth closed and the dewlap not obscuring the shape of the head.  Now here is a close up of another male leopard from Aberdares NP (the big orange male whose pics we've seen before). This guy's head looks way more massive, look at the relative size of the ears and eyes, all dwarfed by the massiveness of the head. This is what truly huge leopards look like.  And keep in mind that while Vin Diesel is one of countless males we've seen from Kruger, this Aberdares male is just 1 of 4 or 5 adult males photographed in that region. |
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| ManEater | Feb 20 2016, 08:05 PM Post #1264 |
Omnivore
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Do you think Chui, Aberdares and Rift ethiopian leopards can be put in the same league ? Or the build and size of Aberdares/mount Kenya leopards are an exception in the east African place ? Masai Mara:  Sri Lanka:  
Edited by ManEater, Feb 20 2016, 08:24 PM.
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| chui | Feb 22 2016, 09:49 AM Post #1265 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Hey ManEater. East Africa (by which I mean Kenya, Tanzania, Ethiopia, Somalia, Uganda etc) is composed of very variable environment from deserts to rainforests. The leopards consequently show a lot of variation in this part of the continent. It has widely been stated by a number of sources that the biggest leopards in East Africa come from the highland forest areas. This is probably because the cooler temperature likely favours bigger bulkier bodies and also lions are naturally fewer in these areas. The Aberdares mountain range and Mount Kenya were renowned for their big leopards in the 60s and 70s during the peak of modern safari hunting in Kenya but huge leopards are found in other highland areas of East Africa as well. Lots of very big leopards have also been hunted in the mountains of northern Tanzania with some very impressive skulls recorded in the Rowland Wards. Robin Hurt, a very well respected professional hunter recorded some huge Tanzanian leopards including one shot on Mt Meru which weighed 201lbs and another from Mt Burko which was weighed at 206lbs. It's not clear how full their bellies were but big leopards nonetheless. You may also remember the photo of the big dark dusky coloured leopard shot in Tanzania that was circulating the web a few years ago. This was also a prime example of an East African mountain leopard, it was shot on Mt Kitumbeine in northern Tanzania and allegedly weighed 190lbs. Similarly, big leopards are also found in the highlands of Uganda and Rwanda. But it is probably Ethiopia which has the most vast expanse of mountains where this type of highland forest leopards are most common. However, unlike Kenya and Tanzania which have been much more exposed to western hunters a lot less data has been recorded for leopards of Ethiopia. Nonetheless, the large size and dark colouration of Ethiopian highland leopards was noted as early as the 1860s as stated by Pocock in his 1932 paper on African leopards. You may find the following excerpt of some interest. It is from a book by John Kingsley-Heath, a professional hunter who operated in East and Southern Africa. In his experience like most other professional hunters, the biggest leopards were those from the East African highlands. BTW Tanganyika is the old name for Tanzania.  
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| ManEater | Mar 1 2016, 02:57 AM Post #1266 |
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Omnivore
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Thank you Chui for all theses explanations, would be interesting to see who is the biggest, the big males from east african moutains or the ones from equatorial african forest (in average). Speaking of big leopards, here is an impressive sri lankan male spotted in a tea plantation:  -> http://www.tamilcnn.ca/in-tea-plantation-area-leopard-was-seen-photos-caught-in-the-camera-of-the-reporter.html Edited by ManEater, Mar 1 2016, 02:59 AM.
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| chui | Mar 1 2016, 10:05 PM Post #1267 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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The Congo Basin leopards are bigger IMO. There are some huge skulls from East African mountains in the hunting records (and a couple in the scientific record) but such huge skulls appear to be more common from the Congo Basin region of Central Africa. Just in random scientific samples, there are a number of big Central African leopard skulls which would easily rank among the biggest in the hunting records. I'll share all the skull data when I have the time. Interestingly, Robin Hurt who I mentioned in my last post as having recorded some huge East African mountain leopards also has some experience hunting in Central Africa (DR Congo, CAR, Sudan). He only hunted one leopard in DR Congo and it turned out to be the biggest he encountered (see pic below). He said it was almost as big as a lioness, its skull was over 11 inches long and he estimated the weight at 220lbs. According to him, the biggest leopards in Africa are usually found in the rainforest areas (both Central and East Africa). He also adds that very big leopard can sometimes be found in Southern Africa (Zimbabwe and Namibia etc) but these are exceptions. He is currently based in Namibia so he has no incentive to exaggerate the size of Congo leopards where trophy hunting is now banned. Robin Hurt's experience mirrors that of Peter TurnBull-Kemp who had also dealt with leopards from throughout Africa and similarly concluded the biggest are found in the equatorial forests. The biggest leopard Turnbull-Kemp had ever seen was a monster specimen killed in Cameroon. I'm not surprised by the convergent opinion of both these very experienced authorities on African leopards given the fact it is strongly supported by skull data and frankly a logical understanding of natural selection. The huge forest leopard shot by a client of Robin Hurt in DR Congo in the 1980s. The only one taken by Hurt in the Congo yet an absolutely huge specimen according to him. Here we can get an idea of what a leopard with a 280mm skull looks like, such big leopards appear to be relatively common in this part of Africa.  And some more screen shots of the huge mirror attacking male from Gabon, a fine example of a Congo Basin leopard. The big orange Aberdares male is really impressive but this male to me looks even more impressive.    |
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| HugeHyena | Mar 2 2016, 12:17 AM Post #1268 |
Heterotrophic Organism
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We have all seen the dead male leopard and fuc@@@@ ....... |
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| ManEater | Mar 3 2016, 05:07 AM Post #1269 |
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Omnivore
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Chui: The Gabon leopard with the mirror you have posted is maybe the most impressive leopard i have seen, and the picture with the dead congo leopard is now the most impressive leopard trophy i have seen, the head is huge, the temporalis muscles are impressive and the saggital crest looks very pronounced, all of this seems to support the 11 inches skull and the 100kg weight ! I have got the feeling that even persian leopards don't reach such proportions with such regularity, and all of this in tropical conditions because animals who live in cold conditions are generally bigger (like persian leopards during winter), so it is even more impressive imo. A big headed specimen in India:  
Edited by ManEater, Mar 3 2016, 05:09 AM.
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| Ntwadumela | Mar 3 2016, 07:21 PM Post #1270 |
Herbivore
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Persian leopards   http://www.iew.ir/1394/12/07/45499 |
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| chui | Mar 3 2016, 10:27 PM Post #1271 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Great find Ntwadumela. Really cool to see Persian leopards and other animals in the north Iranian landscape. ManEater, I agree Central African forest leopards are probably top leopards. IMO the most impressive specimens here are probably the very biggest as well as the most robust pound for pound. The reason is simple, they are absolute top predators in their environment and the males prey mainly on tough animals like red river hogs. In the savanna, leopards take second place to lions and both males and females prey largely on nimble prey like impala. In India it's much the same, just replace lions with tigers and impala with chital. Persian leopards are also very big but they are probably second in size. The reason for their large size is probably a combination of colder environment and larger prey like bazoar goat and wild boar. Also, interaction with larger lions and tigers was likely minimal in this region even historically due to naturally lower densities. There are also some huge skulls recorded for Persian leopards over 270mm long but not as common as those from Central Africa. Although, their skulls tend to be very wide. Male Persian leopards generally appear to be stoutly built leopards with thick limbs, deep chests, and broad heads. I would note that their longer fur likely gives them a softer more cuddly appearance making them appear less imposing. In the end it is the variety which really interests me. Both Congo forest leopards and Persian leopards can be very big and impressive yet they are also so different in many ways. No other big cat species shows such extraordinary variety in size, shape, and colour. A very impressive example of a male Persian leopard from Golestan NP. A massive head with heavy body.   Another big male from Golestan NP. 
Edited by chui, Mar 3 2016, 10:28 PM.
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| chui | Mar 5 2016, 07:29 AM Post #1272 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Didn't get a chance to respond to this earlier. This is a great find ManEater, this must be from the central highlands in Sri Lanka where all the tea plantations are. This male looks impressive and we can see it has a beautiful richly coloured coat typical of leopards from the highland forests in the center of the island. Yala NP which is much better known is in the dry lowland zone of the island and the leopards there are usually lighter in colour, although some Yala leopards also have a very reddish colour. Unfortunately most of the highland forests in Sri Lanka were converted to tea plantations but there are some pockets still remaining. Horton Plains NP is the main protected area in this region, it's composed of both highland forests and grassland. The area is also known for its healthy sambar population which is the primary prey for leopards in the park along with wild boar. A very interesting camera trap photo from Horton Plains NP which appears to show 2 male leopards. Unless one is a very big female which I doubt this is a strange photo. Maybe 2 young adult brothers who haven't completely separated or maybe 2 males captured amidst territorial pacing. In any case, the one on the right has some powerful looking jaws!  http://www.ternlanka.org/projects A male leopard that was killed by a poacher's snare near Horton Plains NP. Appears to be a big leopard judging by the hand comparison.   You can also see some shots from a distance of a leopard with a sambar kill in the Horton Plains NP here: http://naturalists.jetwinghotels.com/sri-lankan-leopard-sited-at-horton-plain-national-park/ |
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| ManEater | Mar 6 2016, 09:28 AM Post #1273 |
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Omnivore
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Nice specimens Chui from Horton plains, didn't knew this location. Another great shot from your site:  __________________ And one time again, impressive and stunning big headed gabonese male leopard from Bateke NP: 
Edited by ManEater, Mar 6 2016, 09:56 AM.
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| 1977marc | Mar 7 2016, 05:47 PM Post #1274 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Those Leopard form Goban have the biggest heads I have ever seen. Persian leopards the longest bodies. |
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| ManEater | Mar 15 2016, 08:48 PM Post #1275 |
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Omnivore
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Leopard from Bangalore, India:
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