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Carcharodontosaurus saharicus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jun 8 2012, 05:34 PM (130,003 Views)
Taipan
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Carcharodontosaurus saharicus
This huge meat eater was 45 feet long (5 feet longer than T-rex) and weighed 8 tons, making it one of the largest carnivores that ever walked the earth. This African carnosaur had a gigantic 5’4" long skull and enormous jaws with 8" long serrated teeth. It walked on two legs, had a massive tail, bulky body and short arms ending in three-fingered hands with sharp claws. Carcharodontosaurus is one of the longest and heaviest known carnivorous dinosaurs, with various scientists proposing length estimates ranging between 12 and 13 m (39-43.5 ft) and weight estimates between 6 and 15 metric tons. Its long, muscular legs, and fossilized trackways indicate that it could run about 20 miles per hour, though there is some controversy as to whether it actually did, a forward fall would have been deadly to Carcharodontosaurus, due to the inability of its small arms to brace the animal when it landed. Carcharodontosaurus was a carnivore, with enormous jaws and long, serrated teeth up to eight inches long.

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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Tyrannosaurs Rex vs Carcharodontosaurus
Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:18 PM.
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SpinoInWonderland
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bone crusher
Nov 28 2012, 06:44 PM
Go read Predatory dinosaurs of the world
Sorry, I don't have that book...
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theropod
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bone crusher
Nov 28 2012, 06:44 PM
Go read Predatory dinosaurs of the world and I can find tons of other sources that would have made such a recognition.
Would you mind posting the exact quote? And "more advanced" in the context of a book showing the pohylogeny doesn´t have anything to do with physiological or anatomical traits, it is just the fact that tyrannosaurus lived a bit later and was more closely related to birds, which unfortunately are the only living dinosaurs. That doesn´t imply it would be "better" like you seem to believe.
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bone crusher
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theropod
Nov 29 2012, 09:35 PM
bone crusher
Nov 28 2012, 06:44 PM
Go read Predatory dinosaurs of the world and I can find tons of other sources that would have made such a recognition.
Would you mind posting the exact quote? And "more advanced" in the context of a book showing the pohylogeny doesn´t have anything to do with physiological or anatomical traits, it is just the fact that tyrannosaurus lived a bit later and was more closely related to birds, which unfortunately are the only living dinosaurs. That doesn´t imply it would be "better" like you seem to believe.
I read it from the library but I'll see if I can get a picture of the quote if the book is still there. But from memory he mentioned how T Rex is more advanced due to it's stereo scopic vision, reincorced skull with fused bones, immense jaw power, robust teeth design, the most bulldog like S curved neck, reinforced barrel like chest, leg bone design speedier than other theropods and a few others.
Again I understand different teeth, jaw design are better in their own unique ways but as far as a fight is concerned, T Rex's design is far more useful or efficient to win in the shortest amount of time. Having sharper teeth or slightly quicker bite has no significant effect in this fight if the opponent can disable you with just one bite, the odds is very much stacked against carchy my friend. Think about it.
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theropod
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I´m thinking about this for a longer time than you are even on this board, and I don´t think so...
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bone crusher
Nov 30 2012, 07:14 PM
theropod
Nov 29 2012, 09:35 PM
bone crusher
Nov 28 2012, 06:44 PM
Go read Predatory dinosaurs of the world and I can find tons of other sources that would have made such a recognition.
Would you mind posting the exact quote? And "more advanced" in the context of a book showing the pohylogeny doesn´t have anything to do with physiological or anatomical traits, it is just the fact that tyrannosaurus lived a bit later and was more closely related to birds, which unfortunately are the only living dinosaurs. That doesn´t imply it would be "better" like you seem to believe.
I read it from the library but I'll see if I can get a picture of the quote if the book is still there. But from memory he mentioned how T Rex is more advanced due to it's stereo scopic vision, reincorced skull with fused bones, immense jaw power, robust teeth design, the most bulldog like S curved neck, reinforced barrel like chest, leg bone design speedier than other theropods and a few others.
Again I understand different teeth, jaw design are better in their own unique ways but as far as a fight is concerned, T Rex's design is far more useful or efficient to win in the shortest amount of time. Having sharper teeth or slightly quicker bite has no significant effect in this fight if the opponent can disable you with just one bite, the odds is very much stacked against carchy my friend. Think about it.
I agree with you! Your points are correct
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bone crusher
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theropod
Nov 30 2012, 09:00 PM
I´m thinking about this for a longer time than you are even on this board, and I don´t think so...
Keep living in denial then, I'm done.
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theropod
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me too, if I want to hear TopPhilosopher-quotes I can read them on youtube, no need to baheave like him here bony
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dino-ken
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Okay maybe using terms like advanced is not really fitting.

But as Greg Paul stated in Predatory Dinosaurs of the World - T.rex did have superior senses, speed and firepower to any other giant carnivorous dinosaur ever live.

And since I've actually seen the cast of Sue, was well as a pair of carcharodontosaurs (Acro, and Giganoto). In comparing the three - I would have agree with Greg Paul statements. And the differences between the T.rex and the carcharodontosaurs is pretty striking even to a amature like my self. When you look at all of the obvious advantages that T.rex had over the carcharodontosaurs. The answer becomes very clear - the advantage goes to the Tyrant King.
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theropod
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Superior senses: depends. It had stereoscopic vision, that´s the only sense that might have an impact on this fight, and I´m not sure how much this really contributes to predatory success, seeing that tons of animals lack them and still are great predators

Speed: debateable. In mere top Speed it could likely outmatch a similar sized Carcharodontosaur because of its longer tibia and metatarsal, I agree. But this is a fight, not a race#

Firepower: In terms of bite, it is premature and superficial to say an animal is better just because the jaw seems more massive. The lateral robusticity is mainly for prey restrainment-something Carcharodontosaurs had their arms for. In the end, I do not see why so many people seem to think bite force alone was a deciding factor. Sharper teeth REQUIRE less bite force, that´s an obvious law of physics. Do I really have to remind you once more that Tiger sharks are able to slice through turtle armour? Funny enough they don´t have a particularly strong bite...

btw those casts are those of the Giganotosaurus holotype and of a significantly smaller Carcharodontosaur.
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bone crusher
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Do you even understand the mechanics behind a T Rex bite? It doesn't matter how much sharper carch's teeth are, yes it's a better meat slicer no one is denying that but in the end it only takes one bone crushing bite from rexy to kill it. What makes you think the more powerful jaws can't be used in a fight yet only useful for hunting? Carch's arms? Really lol? Those midget arms are probably only for mating purpose, certainly not deadly for killing multi tons animal. As for the rest, t rex would simply dominate with much more powerful physical attributes including neck, chest, body, thigh bones and most likely more massive tail muscle. All those would contribute in a fight in one way or another. Have you ever learned probability, stats in high school? It's really not hard to grasp mate lol.
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Verdugo
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theropod
Dec 2 2012, 05:03 AM
Superior senses: depends. It had stereoscopic vision, that´s the only sense that might have an impact on this fight, and I´m not sure how much this really contributes to predatory success, seeing that tons of animals lack them and still are great predators

Speed: debateable. In mere top Speed it could likely outmatch a similar sized Carcharodontosaur because of its longer tibia and metatarsal, I agree. But this is a fight, not a race#

Firepower: In terms of bite, it is premature and superficial to say an animal is better just because the jaw seems more massive. The lateral robusticity is mainly for prey restrainment-something Carcharodontosaurs had their arms for. In the end, I do not see why so many people seem to think bite force alone was a deciding factor. Sharper teeth REQUIRE less bite force, that´s an obvious law of physics. Do I really have to remind you once more that Tiger sharks are able to slice through turtle armour? Funny enough they don´t have a particularly strong bite...

btw those casts are those of the Giganotosaurus holotype and of a significantly smaller Carcharodontosaur.
Those arms shit, i would ignore it from now

In term of agility: I have posted scientist ANATOMICAL EXPLANATION and you just keep ignoring it ??
Jaime A. Headden
 
“Cannonization” of the metatarsus involves dealing with compressive forces, and thus increased running performance, while the “loose” third metatarsal involves the snap ligaments that seem to enable better control during turning and keeping the pes in form. This seems to be suited for, in tyrannosaurs and ornithomimosaurs, better stability during running and turns at larger sizes

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theropod
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bone crusher
Dec 2 2012, 12:04 PM
Do you even understand the mechanics behind a T Rex bite? It doesn't matter how much sharper carch's teeth are, yes it's a better meat slicer no one is denying that but in the end it only takes one bone crushing bite from rexy to kill it. What makes you think the more powerful jaws can't be used in a fight yet only useful for hunting? Carch's arms? Really lol? Those midget arms are probably only for mating purpose, certainly not deadly for killing multi tons animal. As for the rest, t rex would simply dominate with much more powerful physical attributes including neck, chest, body, thigh bones and most likely more massive tail muscle. All those would contribute in a fight in one way or another. Have you ever learned probability, stats in high school? It's really not hard to grasp mate lol.
Quote:
 
What makes you think the more powerful jaws can't be used in a fight yet only useful for hunting?

What makes you think the same aboput Carchs sharper teeth, wider gape and faster strike?

Quote:
 
certainly not deadly for killing multi tons animal.

What can i do if you don´t read my posts. Since when does "restraining prey" equal "deadly for killing multi tons animal"?


It takes one bite leaving a massive hole in the T. rex neck or chest area, sending Rexy into shock and severing musculature, blood vessels and nerves to kill T.- rex, but you are denying that, because in your small universe it is merely bite force and bulk that decides a fight. Bulk doesn´t give an animal a notable strenght advantage as long as it isn´t also heavier, and T. rex isn´t heavier unless you give it a massive amount of fat beneath the ribs and don´t do the same with Carcharodontosaurus.
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theropod
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Verdugo
Dec 2 2012, 09:21 PM
theropod
Dec 2 2012, 05:03 AM
Superior senses: depends. It had stereoscopic vision, that´s the only sense that might have an impact on this fight, and I´m not sure how much this really contributes to predatory success, seeing that tons of animals lack them and still are great predators

Speed: debateable. In mere top Speed it could likely outmatch a similar sized Carcharodontosaur because of its longer tibia and metatarsal, I agree. But this is a fight, not a race#

Firepower: In terms of bite, it is premature and superficial to say an animal is better just because the jaw seems more massive. The lateral robusticity is mainly for prey restrainment-something Carcharodontosaurs had their arms for. In the end, I do not see why so many people seem to think bite force alone was a deciding factor. Sharper teeth REQUIRE less bite force, that´s an obvious law of physics. Do I really have to remind you once more that Tiger sharks are able to slice through turtle armour? Funny enough they don´t have a particularly strong bite...

btw those casts are those of the Giganotosaurus holotype and of a significantly smaller Carcharodontosaur.
Those arms shit, i would ignore it from now

In term of agility: I have posted scientist ANATOMICAL EXPLANATION and you just keep ignoring it ??
Jaime A. Headden
 
“Cannonization” of the metatarsus involves dealing with compressive forces, and thus increased running performance, while the “loose” third metatarsal involves the snap ligaments that seem to enable better control during turning and keeping the pes in form. This seems to be suited for, in tyrannosaurs and ornithomimosaurs, better stability during running and turns at larger sizes

I have also given you a paper according to which the agility benefits were mere speculation, based on evolutionary appearance of the structures termed "acrtometatarsus". If this was such a revolutionary complicated thing, it wouldn´t have appeared independently in so many groups, and if it really had effects on agility save for hypothetised ones, everyone would agree about it.
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Verdugo
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Quote:
 
What makes you think the same aboput Carchs sharper teeth, wider gape and faster strike?

Again... -_- . You can't do anything better than making up facts, can you ?


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theropod
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You cannot bring up any argument except for accusing me of "making up facts", while I´m simply stating what physical principles suggest.

Aren´t you actually the one making up facts? You are suggesting a metatarsal, just because of having a somewhat different shape and evolving in some coelurosaurs would make a huge difference in agility, even if the animal that has it is bulkier than the one you are comparing it to? Are you seeing me suggesting Carch was more agile? maybe I should...
Edited by theropod, Dec 2 2012, 09:52 PM.
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