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Carcharodontosaurus saharicus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jun 8 2012, 05:34 PM (130,002 Views)
Taipan
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Carcharodontosaurus saharicus
This huge meat eater was 45 feet long (5 feet longer than T-rex) and weighed 8 tons, making it one of the largest carnivores that ever walked the earth. This African carnosaur had a gigantic 5’4" long skull and enormous jaws with 8" long serrated teeth. It walked on two legs, had a massive tail, bulky body and short arms ending in three-fingered hands with sharp claws. Carcharodontosaurus is one of the longest and heaviest known carnivorous dinosaurs, with various scientists proposing length estimates ranging between 12 and 13 m (39-43.5 ft) and weight estimates between 6 and 15 metric tons. Its long, muscular legs, and fossilized trackways indicate that it could run about 20 miles per hour, though there is some controversy as to whether it actually did, a forward fall would have been deadly to Carcharodontosaurus, due to the inability of its small arms to brace the animal when it landed. Carcharodontosaurus was a carnivore, with enormous jaws and long, serrated teeth up to eight inches long.

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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Blue orca
 
Tyrannosaurs Rex vs Carcharodontosaurus
Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:18 PM.
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bone crusher
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theropod
Dec 2 2012, 09:40 PM
bone crusher
Dec 2 2012, 12:04 PM
Do you even understand the mechanics behind a T Rex bite? It doesn't matter how much sharper carch's teeth are, yes it's a better meat slicer no one is denying that but in the end it only takes one bone crushing bite from rexy to kill it. What makes you think the more powerful jaws can't be used in a fight yet only useful for hunting? Carch's arms? Really lol? Those midget arms are probably only for mating purpose, certainly not deadly for killing multi tons animal. As for the rest, t rex would simply dominate with much more powerful physical attributes including neck, chest, body, thigh bones and most likely more massive tail muscle. All those would contribute in a fight in one way or another. Have you ever learned probability, stats in high school? It's really not hard to grasp mate lol.
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What makes you think the more powerful jaws can't be used in a fight yet only useful for hunting?

What makes you think the same aboput Carchs sharper teeth, wider gape and faster strike?

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certainly not deadly for killing multi tons animal.

What can i do if you don´t read my posts. Since when does "restraining prey" equal "deadly for killing multi tons animal"?


It takes one bite leaving a massive hole in the T. rex neck or chest area, sending Rexy into shock and severing musculature, blood vessels and nerves to kill T.- rex, but you are denying that, because in your small universe it is merely bite force and bulk that decides a fight. Bulk doesn´t give an animal a notable strenght advantage as long as it isn´t also heavier, and T. rex isn´t heavier unless you give it a massive amount of fat beneath the ribs and don´t do the same with Carcharodontosaurus.
Again, do you honestly expect those midget arms can restrain multi tons animal to any significant degree? God you're desperate.
And I have to repeat myself endlessly over and over about bites. If you think carch can bite a hole in Rex's neck then the same also applies for Rex. But Rex can have option B which is to crush carch's neck vertebra like waffles in one bite, however carch doesn't have option B. This is what we commonly refer to as better odds at winning. Get it? Got it? Good.
And T Rex according to everything we know thus far does indeed weigh more. Carch and Giga are bigger no more according to the latest size shrink. And for an animal such as carch that's anatomically slender, less robust in built, that's most likely a lighter animal. And yes I'm comparing Hartman's drawing of rex and a Carcharodontosaurus that's reconstructed longer than it should be so it's 110% fair.
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Black Ice
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Oh hell no^ T.rex would obliterate carchara now!
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Ausar
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*Comment deleted.
Edited by Ausar, Dec 3 2012, 11:34 AM.
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theropod
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bone crusher
Dec 3 2012, 09:44 AM
theropod
Dec 2 2012, 09:40 PM
bone crusher
Dec 2 2012, 12:04 PM
Do you even understand the mechanics behind a T Rex bite? It doesn't matter how much sharper carch's teeth are, yes it's a better meat slicer no one is denying that but in the end it only takes one bone crushing bite from rexy to kill it. What makes you think the more powerful jaws can't be used in a fight yet only useful for hunting? Carch's arms? Really lol? Those midget arms are probably only for mating purpose, certainly not deadly for killing multi tons animal. As for the rest, t rex would simply dominate with much more powerful physical attributes including neck, chest, body, thigh bones and most likely more massive tail muscle. All those would contribute in a fight in one way or another. Have you ever learned probability, stats in high school? It's really not hard to grasp mate lol.
Quote:
 
What makes you think the more powerful jaws can't be used in a fight yet only useful for hunting?

What makes you think the same aboput Carchs sharper teeth, wider gape and faster strike?

Quote:
 
certainly not deadly for killing multi tons animal.

What can i do if you don´t read my posts. Since when does "restraining prey" equal "deadly for killing multi tons animal"?


It takes one bite leaving a massive hole in the T. rex neck or chest area, sending Rexy into shock and severing musculature, blood vessels and nerves to kill T.- rex, but you are denying that, because in your small universe it is merely bite force and bulk that decides a fight. Bulk doesn´t give an animal a notable strenght advantage as long as it isn´t also heavier, and T. rex isn´t heavier unless you give it a massive amount of fat beneath the ribs and don´t do the same with Carcharodontosaurus.
Again, do you honestly expect those midget arms can restrain multi tons animal to any significant degree? God you're desperate.
And I have to repeat myself endlessly over and over about bites. If you think carch can bite a hole in Rex's neck then the same also applies for Rex. But Rex can have option B which is to crush carch's neck vertebra like waffles in one bite, however carch doesn't have option B. This is what we commonly refer to as better odds at winning. Get it? Got it? Good.
And T Rex according to everything we know thus far does indeed weigh more. Carch and Giga are bigger no more according to the latest size shrink. And for an animal such as carch that's anatomically slender, less robust in built, that's most likely a lighter animal. And yes I'm comparing Hartman's drawing of rex and a Carcharodontosaurus that's reconstructed longer than it should be so it's 110% fair.
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Longer than it should be? Looks too short for me.

T. rex doesn´t have option B. It can crush carchas neck, carch can cut it. More or less the same conseuenzes for the injured animal. T. rex doesn´t excel at both as you want to believe.

according to everything we know, carcharodontosaurus is estimated to be larger by most authorities, and it being larger is the most likely going by its total lenght estimates. "the latest size shrink" is basically your only source, and it didn´t explain why the skull should be so short, neither did it include any testing on the pneumacity of the femora. Also keep in mind while not that much longer, all the dimensions do still exceed those of T. rex, even with this size shrink.
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bone crusher
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Are you seriously saying T REx can't bite a hole in carch's neck? You're unbelievable.

Most authorities have the outdated infos, they would eventually revise their data just like they did with so many dinosaurs. And what are all those dimensions exactly? Femur, tibia etc? Please show me links. Unless Carch is substantially bigger than giga holotype and we know Sue is bigger than giga, then there's no way carch's dimension is bigger than Sue at least.
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SpinoInWonderland
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To prevent a 99? page debate that goes nowhere, let's not use Sue, I repeat, No using Sue, since that specimen apparently gets all those insanely crazy estimates...Try using another specimen or a generic tyrannosaur scaled to a published size or so...
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bone crusher
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Yeah let's just use the smallest T Rex available while we at it and exaggerate carch's size to its absolute limit. Does the fact Sue is the most studied t rex with the most up to ate data bother some of you? Or you simply refuse to accept science?
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SpinoInWonderland
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bone crusher
Dec 4 2012, 05:41 PM
Yeah let's just use the smallest T Rex available while we at it and exaggerate carch's size to its absolute limit. Does the fact Sue is the most studied t rex with the most up to ate data bother some of you? Or you simply refuse to accept science?
Nah, just use a specimen that is more in the middle of the size range of the specimens found, otherwise you and theropod are just going to say the same things all over and over while going nowhere...
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bone crusher
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Broly do you have any idea how ridiculous your idea is lol? How old are you kids?
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theropod
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bone crusher
Dec 4 2012, 04:55 PM
Are you seriously saying T REx can't bite a hole in carch's neck? You're unbelievable.

Most authorities have the outdated infos, they would eventually revise their data just like they did with so many dinosaurs. And what are all those dimensions exactly? Femur, tibia etc? Please show me links. Unless Carch is substantially bigger than giga holotype and we know Sue is bigger than giga, then there's no way carch's dimension is bigger than Sue at least.
I´m seriously saying that T. rex biting a hole into Carchs neck is nothign else but crushing its neck, while carcharodontosaurus would slice it. We know that Sue is probably around the size of the giga holotype weightwise, imo most likely shorter tough. "those exact dimensions" were those you yourself are referring to "the new revised sizes" or how you called them. Carchy and giga still exceeded T. rex linear dimensions in all their body parts, even tough pushed to the absolute minimum and thus not very notable. Basing something entirely on femur circumference is pointless as long as you don´t study the internal bone structure, as coelurosaurs are more pneumatic.


BTW an average for T. rex seems to be ~12m+-some cm, when basing on sue and the femur mean figure from PalaeoDB.

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theropod
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bone crusher
Dec 4 2012, 06:35 PM
Broly do you have any idea how ridiculous your idea is lol? How old are you kids?
For once broly was actually right, we shoudl probably use an average figure for T. rex, but I´m content when we use sue. If you respond to the suggestion of using average figures with something like this:
Quote:
 
Broly do you have any idea how ridiculous your idea is lol? How old are you kids?


this raises the question about your own age.
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Verdugo
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Quote:
 
coelurosaurs are more pneumatic

Some proofs for that would be helpful my friend, give some sources CLEARLY stated/claimed that Coelurosaurs are always more pneumetic than Carnosaurs

The 9,5 tonnes Sue has already include the pneumaticity
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Jinfengopteryx
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brolyeuphyfusion
Dec 4 2012, 05:14 PM
To prevent a 99? page debate that goes nowhere, let's not use Sue, I repeat, No using Sue, since that specimen apparently gets all those insanely crazy estimates...Try using another specimen or a generic tyrannosaur scaled to a published size or so...
And what is the average of Tyrannosaurus? There are other Tyrannosaurus specimen what were able to reach Sue's length (Peck's T-rex was slightly smaller than Sue, but still close to her size. I don't believe MOR 008 was bigger than Tyrannosaurus anymore, theropod has once written the same mount on Sue's skull would also apply to MOR 008, but it would still be close to Sue's size than and UCMP 118742 was probably too similar in size to Sue, all these mentioned Tyrannosaurus specimen should be in the 12m range, so they won't be much smaller than Sue).
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Verdugo
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Jinfengopteryx
Dec 4 2012, 11:54 PM
brolyeuphyfusion
Dec 4 2012, 05:14 PM
To prevent a 99? page debate that goes nowhere, let's not use Sue, I repeat, No using Sue, since that specimen apparently gets all those insanely crazy estimates...Try using another specimen or a generic tyrannosaur scaled to a published size or so...
And what is the average of Tyrannosaurus? There are other Tyrannosaurus specimen what were able to reach Sue's length (Peck's T-rex was slightly smaller than Sue, but still close to her size. I don't believe MOR 008 was bigger than Tyrannosaurus anymore, theropod has once written the same mount on Sue's skull would also apply to MOR 008, but it would still be close to Sue's size than and UCMP 118742 was probably too similar in size to Sue, all these mentioned Tyrannosaurus specimen should be in the 12m range, so they won't be much smaller than Sue).
As far as i know, Sue is only freak in bulk, but she's actually not much longer or taller than other T rex

When the hell did Theropod criticize the size of MOR 008  :o ???. Did he give you any paper or scientists claims ?? If not, you still seriously trust him ??

Edited by Verdugo, Dec 5 2012, 12:12 AM.
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theropod
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^there actually are no papers about MOR 008, it is merely based on a news article claimign tis skull to be 1,5m. Going by the photos and the detailed lenght figures for dentary and maxilla this skull lenght does not represent the same measurement as 1,4m sue. Calling sue a freak is probaably exagerated btw.

UCMP 118742s only part is actually a fair bit smaller than the same part in Sue (the maxilla).

The largest T. rexes, possibly excluding the phalanx, are all around sues size. she isn´t a freak, some such as pecks rex are pretty similar in overall lenght, even tough maybe more slender.

Jingoferx, if one can believe the mean figure from the Palaeobiology Database (scaling from femur size of sue) The mean for a T. rex specimen is probably ~12m, give or take some centimetres. This isn´t drastically smaller than sue, even tough on average a T. rex would likely weigh somewhat less than she did.
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