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Carcharodontosaurus saharicus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jun 8 2012, 05:34 PM (129,994 Views)
Taipan
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Carcharodontosaurus saharicus
This huge meat eater was 45 feet long (5 feet longer than T-rex) and weighed 8 tons, making it one of the largest carnivores that ever walked the earth. This African carnosaur had a gigantic 5’4" long skull and enormous jaws with 8" long serrated teeth. It walked on two legs, had a massive tail, bulky body and short arms ending in three-fingered hands with sharp claws. Carcharodontosaurus is one of the longest and heaviest known carnivorous dinosaurs, with various scientists proposing length estimates ranging between 12 and 13 m (39-43.5 ft) and weight estimates between 6 and 15 metric tons. Its long, muscular legs, and fossilized trackways indicate that it could run about 20 miles per hour, though there is some controversy as to whether it actually did, a forward fall would have been deadly to Carcharodontosaurus, due to the inability of its small arms to brace the animal when it landed. Carcharodontosaurus was a carnivore, with enormous jaws and long, serrated teeth up to eight inches long.

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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Blue orca
 
Tyrannosaurs Rex vs Carcharodontosaurus
Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:18 PM.
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bone crusher
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Isn't Sue's maximum skull length 153cm? Where did you get 146cm from?
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theropod
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The figure of 140 cm in Brochus paper refers to Pmx-Qj, Holtz gave 153cm as Pmx-Occ, but I don´t understand how it is possible (Verdugo has posted the info on it), actually it ought to be shorter, so maybe it referred to the crushed skull (it should now be 139cm). The 146cm are the maximum dimension when scaled to the 140cm for Pmx-Qj Brochu gave.
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theropod
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I´m working on making a dorsal view reconstruction of sue, but that´s a bit difficult due to the crushing.
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Carcharadon
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CrazyFish
Dec 11 2012, 08:42 AM
1.4 tonne Allosaurus barely any faster than 6 tonne Tyrannosurus.
1.4 tonne allosaurus? Source?
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theropod
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that was made up, no-one would seriuosly suggest that
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blaze
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Didn't gecko posted figures from Brochu's paper with the 139cm corresponding to the Pmx-Occ?

Lately this thing with skull lengths has gotten kind of confusing.


I've read your blog, now I understand haha
Edited by blaze, Jan 2 2013, 01:05 PM.
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theropod
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treu, very confusing. I´m still wondering what 153cm could refer to, as it looks like the figures are excluding each others (when I scale it to brochus measurement even the alrgest dimension of the skull isn´t anywhere near to 1,53m). So I´d recommend keeping in mind there is another measurement for sues skull that might also be correct.
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Superiron21
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theropod
Nov 22 2012, 12:49 AM
Archosaur
Nov 21 2012, 11:39 PM
Verdugo
Nov 21 2012, 10:46 PM
brolyeuphyfusion
Nov 21 2012, 07:29 PM
bone crusher
Nov 21 2012, 07:06 PM
A bone crushing bite is far more deadlier than a razor sharp bite, the former can quickly disable the opponent if aimed to the neck, the latter would have to cause as much bleeding as possible while not disabling the opponent instantly. Imagine either predator had a bite to each others neck, Carchy would be the first to fall down, simple as that.
If Carcharodontosaurus bit the Tyrannosaurus in the neck, the carnosaur can destroy the Tyrannosaurus' jugular vein, and it's to the afterlife for Tyrannosaurus...
If T rex bit Carcharodontosaurus neck, Carcharodontosaurus vertebrate would be shattered in pieces
T rex has a clear advantage in bite. It's skull is massively constructed in order to produce a tremendous bite force and sustain the forces generated by a struggling prey. Also tyrannosaurids in general had much more powerfull neck muscles and robust neck vertebra than carcharodontosaurids. Also we should consider tooth morphology, t rex teeth had a taller-wider crown, bigger roots but also had serrations, which means that can penetrate and rip flesh efficiently. Carcha was not well adapted to kill a prey item as fast as t rex. It's skull and mandible was not adapted to handle the stresses of biting on a struggling animal for a prolonged time.
I don´t like this kind of one sided argumentation.

Carcharodontosaur swouldn´t btie and hold onto a prey item for a long time, they would deliver a fast bite and let go of it, if necessary they could still btie again as they used their forelimbs to control their position relative to prey, not solely their jaws.

T. rex wasn´t great at both and carcharodontosaurus only at slicing, this is an illogical assumption. t. rex is mainly a crusher, but it is able to tear flesh. Carcharodontosaurus is mainly a slicer, btu it could damage bones. T. rex is not great at slicing flesh AND great at crushing.


The neck muscle part is not only unbased, but also oversimplyfied. sure, its neck is mroe massive, but hat´s simply because the head is heavier. it wouldn´t have significantly greater strenght due to that, what it has on the carhcarodontosaur in neck strenght was needed to hold the heavy skull.
with the carcha bite force... carcha could´nt got really bad damage to t-rex because rex is more robust than carcha then if t-rex bite carcha with his powerful bite neck would be broken in secs....
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Superiron21
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brolyeuphyfusion
Nov 27 2012, 03:57 PM
dino-ken
Nov 27 2012, 01:19 PM
As has been pointed out T.rex is the most advanced giant theropod. He literally has 25-30 million years of additional development on Carcharodontosaurus
Nope. Temporal range does NOT mean more advanced. Evolution is a tree, NOT a ladder, there are no evolutionary levels...
Are you saying that just because carcha has larger arms is more advanced... evolution and proofs said that T-rex is best predator than carcha....
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SpinoInWonderland
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Superiron21
Jan 21 2013, 01:32 PM
brolyeuphyfusion
Nov 27 2012, 03:57 PM
dino-ken
Nov 27 2012, 01:19 PM
As has been pointed out T.rex is the most advanced giant theropod. He literally has 25-30 million years of additional development on Carcharodontosaurus
Nope. Temporal range does NOT mean more advanced. Evolution is a tree, NOT a ladder, there are no evolutionary levels...
Are you saying that just because carcha has larger arms is more advanced... evolution and proofs said that T-rex is best predator than carcha....
I am NOT saying that Carcharodontosaurus is more advanced. Tyrannosaurus is NOT more advanced and also NOT better...You can't compare them like that...

You are saying that I am a huge Tyrannosaurus hater, yet all you can say is popular sensationalistic bs...the irony is delicious...
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SpinoInWonderland
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Superiron21
Jan 21 2013, 01:21 PM
with the carcha bite force... carcha could´nt got really bad damage to t-rex because rex is more robust than carcha
Really now? rolleyes

Carcharodontosaurus was mode for slicing, NOT crushing, it doesn't need a high bite force to do damage...why is it that you Tyrannosaurus fans think that damage is decided by bite force alone?
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Superiron21
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brolyeuphyfusion
Dec 8 2012, 08:10 PM
^
Spinosaurus is more threatening, more powerful, and a more worthy adversary than Tyrannosaurus...

and saying that Carcharodontosaurus is more primitive than Tyrannosaurus is sensationalistic bs, you cannot compare them like that because they evolved differently...

and just because Tyrannosaurus is resilient doesn't make Carcharodontosaurus flimsy, mind you...Carcharodontosaurus is likely similar in resilience and durability...

Intelligence is a non-factor, generally animals fight with instincts, not intelligence, it doesn't matter even if Tyrannosaurus has 10x the brainpower of Carcharodontosaurus, intelligence is not a factor since they won't be fighting with it, they'll rely on their instincts instead
Spinosaurus would never won a fight not even with carcha, giga or T-rex... his maxilar is large and nothing bulk... please do this by yourself push the 3rd finger and the first (spino bite) then push all your hand (T-rex bite) did you understand? spino wasn´t designed for fights (proved) his diet was fish and little preys (his arms and his claw was desinged to carch prey no to fight those arms doesn´t have the strenght to deal with the three carnosaurs I´ve mentioned....
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SpinoInWonderland
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Superiron21
Jan 21 2013, 02:03 PM
brolyeuphyfusion
Dec 8 2012, 08:10 PM
^
Spinosaurus is more threatening, more powerful, and a more worthy adversary than Tyrannosaurus...

and saying that Carcharodontosaurus is more primitive than Tyrannosaurus is sensationalistic bs, you cannot compare them like that because they evolved differently...

and just because Tyrannosaurus is resilient doesn't make Carcharodontosaurus flimsy, mind you...Carcharodontosaurus is likely similar in resilience and durability...

Intelligence is a non-factor, generally animals fight with instincts, not intelligence, it doesn't matter even if Tyrannosaurus has 10x the brainpower of Carcharodontosaurus, intelligence is not a factor since they won't be fighting with it, they'll rely on their instincts instead
Spinosaurus would never won a fight not even with carcha, giga or T-rex... his maxilar is large and nothing bulk... please do this by yourself push the 3rd finger and the first (spino bite) then push all your hand (T-rex bite) did you understand? spino wasn´t designed for fights (proved) his diet was fish and little preys (his arms and his claw was desinged to carch prey no to fight those arms doesn´t have the strenght to deal with the three carnosaurs I´ve mentioned....
Just stop, you're hurting yourself... rolleyes

It doesn't matter what you eat, they physical attributes matter. Spinosaurus is MUCH larger than the theropods you mentioned...and what makes you think the Spinosaurus would fight with it's arms or bite alone? It would use it's strength and size to win...

Tyrannosaurus is also not a carnosaur...it's a coelurosaur
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Carcharadon
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This is like chicken vs turkey. T.rex is the chicken, and carchy is the turkey. Chickens run away from turkeys. So t.rexs run away from carchies. With that said carchy wins.
Edited by Carcharadon, Jan 21 2013, 02:15 PM.
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MysteryMeat
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Dark allosaurus
Jan 21 2013, 02:14 PM
This is like chicken vs turkey. T.rex is the chicken, and carchy is the turkey. Chickens run away from turkeys. So t.rexs run away from carchies. With that said carchy wins.

Problem t.rex fans?
Carcha is not 3 times bigger than t. rex.
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