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Carcharodontosaurus saharicus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Jun 8 2012, 05:34 PM (129,980 Views)
Taipan
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Carcharodontosaurus saharicus
This huge meat eater was 45 feet long (5 feet longer than T-rex) and weighed 8 tons, making it one of the largest carnivores that ever walked the earth. This African carnosaur had a gigantic 5’4" long skull and enormous jaws with 8" long serrated teeth. It walked on two legs, had a massive tail, bulky body and short arms ending in three-fingered hands with sharp claws. Carcharodontosaurus is one of the longest and heaviest known carnivorous dinosaurs, with various scientists proposing length estimates ranging between 12 and 13 m (39-43.5 ft) and weight estimates between 6 and 15 metric tons. Its long, muscular legs, and fossilized trackways indicate that it could run about 20 miles per hour, though there is some controversy as to whether it actually did, a forward fall would have been deadly to Carcharodontosaurus, due to the inability of its small arms to brace the animal when it landed. Carcharodontosaurus was a carnivore, with enormous jaws and long, serrated teeth up to eight inches long.

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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Tyrannosaurs Rex vs Carcharodontosaurus
Edited by Taipan, Apr 24 2015, 10:18 PM.
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theropod
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No idea, I only guessed, loosely inspired by the gape angles of more or less powerful biters in the extant fauna. It might be completely different. Carch is likely close to its maximum gape tough (that in allosaurus is supposedly around 100° so at best it is 10° more, but Allosaurus has some unique adaptions for large gape which we do not see in Carcharodontosaurs, eg the inwards-curving quadrate, antarticular and shortened temporal foramen).
Edited by theropod, Jun 27 2013, 12:46 AM.
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Temnospondyl
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Jinfengopteryx
Jan 25 2013, 05:50 AM
Post evidence please! I don't have problems with the neotype (tough there's no published estimate, so I'm not sure about this one), but there is no evidence for a Carcharodontosaurus larger than 14m.
And you know that Sue was 12,29m long?
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Source: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0026037
Sorry if I sounded a bit rude, but I get a bit annoyed, this isn't the first time you're talking about a fantastic 16m Carcharodontosaurus.
Wasn't that specimen described by Sereno?
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Temnospondyl
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theropod
Jun 27 2013, 12:17 AM
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I know, I should spend my time doing more useful, scientific stuff, shouldn't I?

Anyway, i didn't have A or B in mind, since there is very little surface to attack in relatively narrow rostra like these, and it basically means putting your jaws into your opponents mouth. I don't consider the "kiss" scenario (C/D) very likely either.

What I meant was G, F or E, in which case one gets a hold of the other's skull without putting its own skull into its opponents mouth. E) would pretty likely cause a fracure of the carnosaurss rostrum and decide the fight in favour of the tyrannosaur. G or F would probably sever T. rex' jaw musculature and facial arteries, leaving it to die or rendering it defenseless for a killing btie to the carotids or jugular. I did not suggest Face biting would be a strategy Carcharodontosaurus would be particularly good at, but it is imo sufficiently to not be outclassed even if this developes into a skull-bite-match, thanks to its long jaws and gape (in the above image it's 90°).
Based on the gape, Carcharodontosaurus can bite both jaws of T. Rex, when it's mouth's not open.
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Big G
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Temnospondyl
Jun 27 2013, 04:46 PM
Jinfengopteryx
Jan 25 2013, 05:50 AM
Post evidence please! I don't have problems with the neotype (tough there's no published estimate, so I'm not sure about this one), but there is no evidence for a Carcharodontosaurus larger than 14m.
And you know that Sue was 12,29m long?
Posted Image
Source: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0026037
Sorry if I sounded a bit rude, but I get a bit annoyed, this isn't the first time you're talking about a fantastic 16m Carcharodontosaurus.
Wasn't that specimen described by Sereno?
The specimen described by Sereno was between 12.8 to 14 meters, but 16m is impossible.
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Jinfengopteryx
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Temnospondyl
Jun 27 2013, 04:46 PM
Wasn't that specimen described by Sereno?
Sereno only claimed it to be at least 13,5 m long. Not 16 m.
a bit boring estimate talk now
Temnospondyl
Jun 27 2013, 04:51 PM
Based on the gape, Carcharodontosaurus can bite both jaws of T. Rex, when it's mouth's not open.
This isn't Tyrannosaurus' maximum gape.
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Big G
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Jinfengopteryx
Jun 27 2013, 06:06 PM
Temnospondyl
Jun 27 2013, 04:46 PM
Wasn't that specimen described by Sereno?
Sereno only claimed it to be at least 13,5 m long. Not 16 m.
a bit boring estimate talk now
Temnospondyl
Jun 27 2013, 04:51 PM
Based on the gape, Carcharodontosaurus can bite both jaws of T. Rex, when it's mouth's not open.
This isn't Tyrannosaurus' maximum gape.
Actually, Sereno said that it was at least 12 meters. However, the estimate of Blaze sounds realistic I think.
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Temnospondyl
Stegocephalia specialist.
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Jinfengopteryx
Jun 27 2013, 06:06 PM
Temnospondyl
Jun 27 2013, 04:46 PM
Wasn't that specimen described by Sereno?
Sereno only claimed it to be at least 13,5 m long. Not 16 m.
a bit boring estimate talk now
Temnospondyl
Jun 27 2013, 04:51 PM
Based on the gape, Carcharodontosaurus can bite both jaws of T. Rex, when it's mouth's not open.
This isn't Tyrannosaurus' maximum gape.
Yes, I know. I said if T. Rex's mouth is not open.
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Jinfengopteryx
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Theropodomorpha
Jun 27 2013, 06:14 PM
Actually, Sereno said that it was at least 12 meters. However, the estimate of Blaze sounds realistic I think.
Wasn't the "at least 12 m" misquoted? Anyway, these estimates were my own ones.
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theropod
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12m was a misquotation, a very common one on top of that. Sereno inofficially gave 13,7m (45ft) on his site (now seems to be down) and in the press release.

It is debatable whether to use Giganotosaurus or Acrocanthosaurus.
Based on total skull-lenght as reconstructed it would be around 12,4-13,56m long (163/149 or 163cm*Giga's lenght) when based on the former, so from roughly the size of the holotype to slightly larger than Mucpv-95. That depends on Giganotosaurus' real skull lenght tough.
based on Acrocanthosaurus (157/129*Acro's lenght), it would be 14m or more.

I think the intermediate figures are best.
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theropod
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Yes, it could probably bite both jaws at a time, perhaps even when they're opened. But I cannot see what for, that would be of little use since it would find little soft tissue to deal damage too and would only leave some ghashes on the bone. A slices nose would not put the tyrannosaur into immediate danger.

To be dangerous, the carnosaur would target the posterior region, where the jaw muscles and large blood vessels are.
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Shaochilong
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Spinodontosaurus
Jun 26 2013, 12:43 AM
Because they can't be used in almost any conceivable situation? They certainly aren't enough to be a deciding factor in a parity matchup such as this.
They are an advantage, but a risky one to use.
Theropods might be able to use their front arms as weapons in an attack from the side. That is mostly useful against a smaller opponent, rather than one that is more or less the same size, but if the theropod in question were to rear up slightly the arms could be used against a similar-sized opponent. As I said, that would be a risky strategy, leaving the theropod open to retaliation, but the arms could still be used as offensive weapons.
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Shaochilong
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Spinodontosaurus
Jun 26 2013, 12:43 AM
Because they can't be used in almost any conceivable situation? They certainly aren't enough to be a deciding factor in a parity matchup such as this.
They are an advantage, but a risky one to use.
Theropods might be able to use their front arms as weapons in an attack from the side. That is mostly useful against a smaller opponent, rather than one that is more or less the same size, but if the theropod in question were to rear up slightly the arms could be used against a similar-sized opponent. As I said, that would be a risky strategy, leaving the theropod open to retaliation, but the arms could still be used as offensive weapons.
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theropod
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I think Carcharodontosaurus would have a bit of a height advantage (as well as a lenght and overall size/weight imo), going by the holotype.
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Big G
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Jinfengopteryx
Jun 27 2013, 08:10 PM
Theropodomorpha
Jun 27 2013, 06:14 PM
Actually, Sereno said that it was at least 12 meters. However, the estimate of Blaze sounds realistic I think.
Wasn't the "at least 12 m" misquoted? Anyway, these estimates were my own ones.
12m is a misquotation, but he initially gave +12 meters as a rough figure, after he gave his estimate of 13.7 meters.
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theropod
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^where?
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