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| Limits to dinosaur size? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 12 2012, 12:50 AM (3,890 Views) | |
| SpinoInWonderland | Jun 12 2012, 12:50 AM Post #1 |
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The madness has come back...
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On the thread "south america: land of giants", someone got a 170-200 tonne Puertasaurus by scaling it from an Argentinosaurus. That would be in the weight range of a blue whale I don't want that thread to go off-topic, so I'll make this one. How high is the limit to dinosaur size? EDIT: I now believe that the limits of terrestrial creatures far exceed the mass of a blue whale Edited by SpinoInWonderland, Sep 2 2012, 10:36 AM.
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| Superpredator | Sep 3 2012, 05:09 PM Post #16 |
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Apex Predator
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This is too much! |
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| theropod | Sep 3 2012, 05:57 PM Post #17 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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no-one knows for sure at the moment, so practically all this bases on is personal guesses. That´s another thing that can make me pretty angry, people just say "impossible for terrestrial animals" as soon as they see a sauropod approaching the size of their beloved blue whale, basing on nothing but guess. if anyone has the matematical skills and the data, he/she could use the metod from my last post. |
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| Fragillimus335 | Sep 4 2012, 03:29 AM Post #18 |
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Omnivore
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Terrifyingly there is a sauropod that might approach that weight. The titanosaur prints near Broome, Australia have been measure by Tony Thulborne at 1.7-2 meters wide. That's pretty terrifying, because the mounted Giraffatitan in Berlin has feet ~80cm wide with flesh. 1.7/.8=2.125, and 2/.8=2.5 times the size of Giraffatitan. If we conservatively assume Giraffatitan could represent a 75 foot, ~35 ton titanosaur, then the Broome prints might come from an animal 160-185 feet long, and 335-540 tons in weight. |
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| theropod | Sep 4 2012, 03:35 AM Post #19 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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Indeed terrifying!
Edited by theropod, Sep 4 2012, 03:36 AM.
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| coherentsheaf | Sep 4 2012, 06:59 AM Post #20 |
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Kleptoparasite
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Have you got a reference for the 1.7-2m tracks? In the 2012 paper the largest track in figure 2 is about 1.5m long and about 1m wide. I have only skimmed the paper though and could have missed it. |
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| Fragillimus335 | Sep 4 2012, 07:09 AM Post #21 |
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Omnivore
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I am aware of a video of him stating the 2 meter widths, but I can't seem to find it. In his paper he describes rumors of 1.5 meter prints, only to find 1.7 meter ones. Search for "james price point tracks 1.7". It seems they might not be around for long
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| coherentsheaf | Sep 4 2012, 07:18 AM Post #22 |
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Kleptoparasite
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Are we talking about the same paper? http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0036208 I cannot find it in there. Anyway, I think the numbers given are for the length of the foot, not for the width. Hence the enormous tracks might not be so enormous after all. If the length to width ratio is about 1.5 like in the print in the paper, our 1.7-2m print is not as wide. |
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| theropod | Sep 4 2012, 07:28 AM Post #23 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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this paper doesn´t give a precise figure, just >1,5m. Many palaeontologists don´t focus on the exact size that much, but this animal would have certainly exceeded 45m if it had 1,7m+ footprints like stated in press interviews EDIT: found another interesting page: http://home.alphalink.com.au/~dannj/watracks.htm Edited by theropod, Sep 4 2012, 07:33 AM.
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| theropod | Sep 4 2012, 07:30 AM Post #24 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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does anyone know how to find this paper, which is cited in the references of the linked one above? Thulborn RA, Hamley TL, Foulkes P (1995) Preliminary report on sauropod dinosaur tracks in the Broome Sandstone (Lower Cretaceous) of Western Australia. There seems to be a phenomen of papers cited relatively frequently just disappearing from the internet. |
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| coherentsheaf | Sep 4 2012, 07:37 AM Post #25 |
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Kleptoparasite
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Okay let us assume that 1.7m long is the correct figure. The foot would be about 1.7/1.5= 1.133m wide. This is 1.42 times as large as Giraffatitan ,assuming there are no distortions that led to an enlarged footprint. Scaling would suggest an animal that is 2.85 times as massive. Using a conservative 23 tonnes for the former Brachiosaurus we get up to 65 tonnes, right into the range of mortal sauropods. Even a more liberal 35 tonnes for Giraffatitan only get us to 100 tonnes. |
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| Fragillimus335 | Sep 4 2012, 07:57 AM Post #26 |
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Omnivore
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I don't believe so. Try this, Thulborn, R.A., T.Hamley and P.Foulkes. 1994. Preliminary report on sauropod dinosaur tracks in the Broome Sandstone (Lower Cretaceous) of Western Australia. |
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| coherentsheaf | Sep 4 2012, 07:59 AM Post #27 |
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Kleptoparasite
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I unfortunately do not have access to this paper. Can you either send it to me or quote the relevant part into the thread? |
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| Fragillimus335 | Sep 4 2012, 08:15 AM Post #28 |
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Omnivore
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Broome Sauropod This is not the actual paper, for some reason I can't locate it either, but it describes pes prints 1.7 meters long. "I had seen a talk in 2002 by Australian dinosaur ichnologist Tony Thulborn. Thulborn’s talk was at the International Palaeontological Congress meeting, held in Sydney that year, a meeting that gave me a great reason for the first of many visits to Australia. His presentation had the deliberately provocative title, “Giant Tracks in the Broome Sandstone (Lower Cretaceous) of Western Australia.” The summary (abstract) of his talk also promised to provide evidence that these dinosaur tracks were the largest known, which by default made them the largest tracks made by any animals in the history of the earth. It was quite a claim, but he backed it up with photographs and careful measurements, the latter indicating tracks that were nearly 2 meters (6.6 ft) wide! At the end of his talk, he then justifiably bragged, “Mine’s the biggest!” Quote from a paleontologist who attended one of Thulborn's presentations. |
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| coherentsheaf | Sep 4 2012, 08:19 AM Post #29 |
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Kleptoparasite
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So the 1.7m is about length, not width. That means above calculation approximately applies. |
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| Fragillimus335 | Sep 4 2012, 08:21 AM Post #30 |
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Omnivore
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I wish the images and measurements from the 2 meter wide tracks in Thulborn's presentations were recorded!![]() And I think the 1 to 1.5 ratio between width and length might be a bit extreme, perhaps 1 to 1.2? Edited by Fragillimus335, Sep 4 2012, 08:24 AM.
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