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Dire Wolf v Spotted Hyena
Topic Started: Jun 17 2012, 05:58 PM (37,521 Views)
Taipan
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Dire Wolf - Canis dirus
The Dire wolf (Canis dirus) is an extinct carnivorous mammal of the genus Canis, and was most common in North America and South America from the Irvingtonian stage to the Rancholabrean stage of the Pleistocene epoch living 1.80 Ma – 10,000 years ago, existing for approximately 1.79 million years. lthough it was closely related to the Gray Wolf and other sister species, Canis dirus was not the direct ancestor of any species known today. Unlike the Gray Wolf, which is of Eurasian origin, the Dire Wolf evolved on the North American continent, along with the Coyote. The Dire Wolf co-existed with the Gray Wolf in North America for about 100,000 years. The dire wolf was about the same size as the largest modern gray wolves (Canis lupus), which are the Yukon wolf and the northwestern wolf. C. d. guildayi weighed on average 60 kilograms (132 lb) and C. d. dirus was on average 68 kg (150 lb). Despite superficial similarities to the Gray Wolf, there were significant differences between the two species. The legs of the Dire Wolf were proportionally shorter and sturdier than those of the Gray Wolf, and its brain case was smaller than that of a similarly sized gray wolf. The Dire Wolf's teeth were similar to the Gray Wolf's, only slightly larger, pointing to a hypercarnivorous to mesocarnivorous activity. Paleontologist R.M. Nowak states the dietary characteristics are primarily carnivorous as well as partially omnivorous.

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Spotted Hyena - Crocuta crocuta
The spotted hyena (Crocuta crocuta), also known as the laughing hyena or tiger wolf, is a species of hyena native to Sub-Saharan Africa. It is listed as Least Concern by the IUCN on account of its widespread range and large numbers estimated at 10,000 individuals. The spotted hyena is the largest extant member of the Hyaenidae.[43] Adults measure 95.0—165.8 cm in body length, and have a shoulder height of 70.0-91.5 cm. Adult male spotted hyenas in the Serengeti weigh 40.5—55.0 kg (89—121 lb), while females weigh 44.5—63.9 kg (98—141 lb). Spotted hyenas in Zambia tend to be heavier, with males weighing on average 67.6 kg (149 lb), and females 69.2 kg (153 lb). Exceptionally large weights of 81.7 kg (180 lb) and 86 kg (190 lb) are known. It has been estimated that adult members of the now extinct Eurasian populations weighed 102 kg (225 lbs).

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werewolf2012
 
How about Spotted hyena vs Dire wolf?


Edited by Taipan, Oct 15 2017, 05:22 PM.
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LeopardNimr
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hyenas are really overrated because of it's bite
no "but" and "no" on this one
the wolf is longer and more heavily built
not all hyenas are 80 kg
i hardly belive that they can pass 75 kg
dire wolf skeleton is huge, bigger than a spotted hyena full body!
also the wolf is faster and can tackle as well
i won't favor a grey wolf over a hyena
but dire wolves are in a nother level
first time i would favor a canine over hyena
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zergthe
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KingPanthera
 
hyenas are really overrated because of it's bite

Watch this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cWdSscBCpaU
Look how quickly the (supposed) matriarch gets the boar under control in the first fight these animals have probably had since the Pleistocene. Keep in mind these were captive and the boar was wild. That's pretty impressive.
KingPanthera
 
i hardly belive that they can pass 75 kg

I hardly believe you did any studying. The man-eaters especially were quite massive.
KingPanthera
 
dire wolf skeleton is huge, bigger than a spotted hyena full body!

What, the Game of Thrones Direwolf? Dire wolves might be large, yes, but the size difference between a grey and dire wolf is not that big.
KingPanthera
 
but dire wolves are in a nother level

Again, the difference is not so huge.
Plus, lions already appear to have a very difficult time actually killing a hyena, so that'll work against the DW.
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Grazier
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zergthe
Jan 10 2017, 05:29 AM
KingPanthera
 
hyenas are really overrated because of it's bite

Watch this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cWdSscBCpaU
Look how quickly the (supposed) matriarch gets the boar under control in the first fight these animals have probably had since the Pleistocene. Keep in mind these were captive and the boar was wild. That's pretty impressive.
Are you sure the boar was wild?

Doesn't make much difference to me, I'm impressed with the hyena anyway (I think people would be shocked how many of their favourite predators would show complete avoidance in that situation) but just watching it I'd assume the boar was in a neighbouring enclosure? I can see a fence at least to the left of where the boar came in (although no proof of it being contained), I also wouldn't expect a wild boar to be so needlessly bold although it's right at the age and size where boars are most angry so maybe.
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LeopardNimr
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zergthe
Jan 10 2017, 05:29 AM
KingPanthera
 
hyenas are really overrated because of it's bite

Watch this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cWdSscBCpaU
Look how quickly the (supposed) matriarch gets the boar under control in the first fight these animals have probably had since the Pleistocene. Keep in mind these were captive and the boar was wild. That's pretty impressive.
KingPanthera
 
i hardly belive that they can pass 75 kg

I hardly believe you did any studying. The man-eaters especially were quite massive.
KingPanthera
 
dire wolf skeleton is huge, bigger than a spotted hyena full body!

What, the Game of Thrones Direwolf? Dire wolves might be large, yes, but the size difference between a grey and dire wolf is not that big.
KingPanthera
 
but dire wolves are in a nother level

Again, the difference is not so huge.
Plus, lions already appear to have a very difficult time actually killing a hyena, so that'll work against the DW.
i have seen the skeleton and a live one stop playin
the hyena vs wild boar? it's a small boar agaians a larger hyena
man eaters were massive? 80 kg? thats only 10 pounds that won't make much a diffrence
they aren't leopards
they attacked people in packs
not alone
you do know how much the hyena can keep on it's belly
maybe he was weighted with a child in his stomach
lions having hard time killing hyenas?
yes any cat will have problem agianst a hyena
thick skin makes the claws less lethal and the bite weaker
but i'd favor any cat over hyena even if the hyena is 30 kg bigger
(still hard time doing it)
dire wolves were a bit thicker and stocky than modern wolf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8Zbjz76iIs
wolves can kill and control boars too you know
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Ceratodromeus
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I fully agree the jaw strength of the hyena is overrated in interspecific conflict, but the mechanical damage they inflict certainly is not.
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they aren't leopards

Obviously, but they are impressive predators in their own right.
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they attacked people in packs
not alone

Painfully wrong.

"A 15-year-old boy is in hospital after a hyena bit him on the face and dragged him from his tent at South Africa's world famous Kruger National Park.
The boy was asleep in a separate compartment of his family's tent when the hyena attacked him early Sunday, South African National Parks spokesman William Mabasa told AFP.
"The animal attacked him on his face," Mr Mabasa said.

"He screamed and his parents woke up.

"Fortunately a nurse was there, as well as one of our guides."
Local news reports said the hyena locked its jaws onto the boy's face, breaking facial bones while dragging him out of the tent in his pyjamas.
The boy was flown to Johannesburg for emergency plastic and reconstructive surgery to his mouth and jaw after being treated at a local hospital.
Local media described his condition as serious.
The hyena, which escaped, is thought to have entered the campsite through a hole in the fence.

Mr Mabasa said it was likely the animal was looking for food and warned people they needed to take care.
"People must be aware at all times that there are wild animals around them and they must make sure that their tents are properly closed," he said.
In July last year, a safari guide survived a leopard attack while viewing wildlife with tourists in Kruger Park.

Just a month earlier, a 22-year-old American tourist died after she was mauled by a lion which leapt through an open car window in a park outside Johannesburg."http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-27/hyena-bites-teen-in-face-at-kruger-national-park/7548576

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the wolf is longer and more heavily built

No, they are of similar morphology. Dire wolves are believed to be more heavily built than modern grey wolves however.

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also the wolf is faster and can tackle as well

Citation needed. Being faster probably wouldn't even matter anyway.

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not all hyenas are 80 kg

And?

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i hardly belive that they can pass 75 kg

Your lack of understanding on this basic concept of morphology for C.crocuta is perfectly outlined here, we don't judge things on "belief" here, not when it comes to something that has already been accepted and shown to be valid.
http://carnivoraforum.com/single/?p=8221370&t=9328044
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Beng4lIL
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i vote for wolf
bigger i think,living in bigger packs,more intelligent than grey wolf,heavier
and the hyena got speed and bite that'is it compared to the wolf lol
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Nergigante
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Quote:
 
i vote for wolf
bigger i think,living in bigger packs,more intelligent than grey wolf,heavier
and the hyena got speed and bite that'is it compared to the wolf


Best argument, 10/10. He does not need to show evidence as he BELIEVES that the dire wolf is stronger, more intelligent, heavier, and lives in bigger packs. I honestly think it depends on the individual so I think either one can win.

Some information about the dire wolf:
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NEW BODY MASS ESTIMATES FOR CANIS DIRUS, THE EXTINCT PLEISTOCENE DIRE WOLF
WILLIAM ANYONGE and CHRIS ROMAN

Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology
Volume 26, Issue 1 (March 2006)
pp. 209–212

The prediction of body mass from specimens of C. dirus found at Rancho La Brea and San Josecito Cave in Mexico resulted in a lower mean body mass (60 kg) compared to the mean body mass (68 kg) predicted for specimens from eastern localities. The overall mean body mass reported for the largest extant gray wolves is 40 kg, with extreme weights for the smallest and largest individuals listed at 12 kg and 80 kg, respectively (Mech, 1970, 1974; Macdonald, 1984). Our results indicate that dire wolves were on average similar in size to the largest extant gray wolves (60–68 kg), which suggests that the largest individuals probably exceeded this body mass range.

Thus, it appears the western dire wolf was 50% and the western dire wolf was 70% heavier than both the modern grey and extinct Berengia wolf.

I would like to see a study comparing the morphology of these species.



Quote:
 
According to the most recent study I posted about dire wolf size, these wolves (both sexes) averaged 132 lbs. I would assume good sized males would then average at least ~ 140-150 lbs. The dire wolves in eastern North America were even larger, and averaged (both sexes) 150 lbs. I'd assume good-sized males weighed at least ~ 160-170 lbs. Unfortunately, I don't know their pack size, but suspect it may have been smaller since they may have lived in more forested regions.

I think dire wolf's size/ecological niche can be seen by comparing cranial data. For example, below are measurements taken from the smaller Rancho Labrean dire wolf, grey wolves and coyotes.

http://books.google.com/books?id=WsTIPYs1KeEC&pg=PA78&dq=dire+wolf+quaternary&sig=3kbWP9YHo6iRVSf64-3isfD7dgU#PPA79,M1

Page 79

Skull Length

Dire Wolf: 29.5 CM

Gray Wolf: 25.1 CM

Coyote: 20.6 CM

Upper Carnassial Length

Dire Wolf: 3.175 CM

Gray Wolf: 2.619 CM

Coyote: 2.105 CM

The dire wolf's skull was 1.18 times longer than the gray wolf's and the gray wolf's was 1.22 times longer than the coyote's. The dire wolf's upper carnassial teeth were 1.21 times longer than the grey wolf's and the grey wolf's was 1.24 times longer. So, basically the dire wolf's cranial traits were roughly the same as to the gray wolf as the gray wolf was to the coyote.

The author of the book notes that upper carnassial length is very important for canids as it impacts their ability to hold and wound/disembowel prey.



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Kazanshin
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Judging by the info given by Mastodon, I'm gonna go for dire wolf. Probably bigger (freak hyena weight is 86kg, while dire wolf is 70% heavier than modern gray wolf. I've heard the average for the Yellowstones gray wolves is around 50kg, so that would mean the average for the dire would be around 85kg, so the average for the dire wolf is the freak for the hyena.) and competed with deadlier opponents (smilodon, short-faced bears, giant bisons, etc) and I think it had a meaner bite (due to its size).
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HerpestidaeB4Cat
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a wolf fighting a hyena would be ... it would be like a cheetah fighting a wolf and the dire wolf would be the cheetah and the hyena would be the wolf .. wolfs are a hell of a lot more durable than cheetahs and they are supposedly more robust than cousin the grey wolf i have seen the way cougars react when wolfs come they attack the wolfs but like the hyenas the wolf pack of 2 or 3 over whelm the cougar and its forced to leave but when leopards see hyeans they dont even waste them trying to hurt them

it all comes down to durability
Edited by HerpestidaeB4Cat, May 17 2017, 02:40 PM.
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Kazanshin
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May 17 2017, 02:36 PM
a wolf fighting a hyena would be ... it would be like a cheetah fighting a wolf and the dire wolf would be the cheetah and the hyena would be the wolf .. wolfs are a hell of a lot more durable than cheetahs and they are supposedly more robust than cousin the grey wolf i have seen the way cougars react when wolfs come they attack the wolfs but like the hyenas the wolf pack of 2 or 3 over whelm the cougar and its forced to leave but when leopards see hyeans they dont even waste them trying to hurt them

it all comes down to durability
The difference is that DW is made to fight, unlike the cheetah. Also, a cougar backs off when faced against a pack of wolves, it won't risk getting injured. Plus, wolf vs cougar is a whole other thread. This is a fight between Canis Dirus, the almighty king of wolves, against the Spotted Hyena, not the lighter-built Grey Wolf.
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Nergigante
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Just because the dire wolf is heavier than a grey wolf, doesn't mean its heavier than a spotted hyena. Could you provide information on why is it smaller than a dire wolf kazanshin?
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HyperNova
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Kazanshin
May 17 2017, 03:11 PM
HerpestidaeB4Cat
May 17 2017, 02:36 PM
a wolf fighting a hyena would be ... it would be like a cheetah fighting a wolf and the dire wolf would be the cheetah and the hyena would be the wolf .. wolfs are a hell of a lot more durable than cheetahs and they are supposedly more robust than cousin the grey wolf i have seen the way cougars react when wolfs come they attack the wolfs but like the hyenas the wolf pack of 2 or 3 over whelm the cougar and its forced to leave but when leopards see hyeans they dont even waste them trying to hurt them

it all comes down to durability
The difference is that DW is made to fight, unlike the cheetah. Also, a cougar backs off when faced against a pack of wolves, it won't risk getting injured. Plus, wolf vs cougar is a whole other thread. This is a fight between Canis Dirus, the almighty king of wolves, against the Spotted Hyena, not the lighter-built Grey Wolf.
Dire wolves are not made to fight, they are made for hunting just like cheetahs and the spotted hyenas. No wild animal are specifically made for fighting.
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Ausar
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I'm pretty sure he simply meant that C. dirus happens to be better suited for combat than a cheetah.
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Kazanshin
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Mastodon
May 18 2017, 04:13 AM
Just because the dire wolf is heavier than a grey wolf, doesn't mean its heavier than a spotted hyena. Could you provide information on why is it smaller than a dire wolf kazanshin?
As I said, I'm using your info
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the western dire wolf was 70% heavier than both the modern grey and extinct Berengia wolf.

and the one in the intro.
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Exceptionally large weights of 81.7 kg (180 lb) and 86 kg (190 lb) are known.

And also something I found on the internet.
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Average weight; females- 60 to 80 pounds; males- 70 to 110 pounds.

http://westyellowstonemotels.com/articles/read/18+Interesting+Facts+About+Yellowstone+Wolves
After that, all you gotta do is the math.
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HyperNova
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@Kazanshin
It appears there is a mistake in mastodon's quote :
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Thus, it appears the western dire wolf was 50% and the western eastern dire wolf was 70% heavier than both the modern grey and extinct Berengia wolf.
When they say ''eastern direwolfs were 70% heavier than extant gray wolfs and beringian wolfs'' they were referring to this :
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The overall mean body mass reported for the largest extant gray wolves is 40 kg
Edited by HyperNova, May 18 2017, 09:13 AM.
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