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| Dire Wolf v Spotted Hyena | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 17 2012, 05:58 PM (37,516 Views) | |
| Taipan | Jun 17 2012, 05:58 PM Post #1 |
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Dire Wolf - Canis dirus The Dire wolf (Canis dirus) is an extinct carnivorous mammal of the genus Canis, and was most common in North America and South America from the Irvingtonian stage to the Rancholabrean stage of the Pleistocene epoch living 1.80 Ma – 10,000 years ago, existing for approximately 1.79 million years. lthough it was closely related to the Gray Wolf and other sister species, Canis dirus was not the direct ancestor of any species known today. Unlike the Gray Wolf, which is of Eurasian origin, the Dire Wolf evolved on the North American continent, along with the Coyote. The Dire Wolf co-existed with the Gray Wolf in North America for about 100,000 years. The dire wolf was about the same size as the largest modern gray wolves (Canis lupus), which are the Yukon wolf and the northwestern wolf. C. d. guildayi weighed on average 60 kilograms (132 lb) and C. d. dirus was on average 68 kg (150 lb). Despite superficial similarities to the Gray Wolf, there were significant differences between the two species. The legs of the Dire Wolf were proportionally shorter and sturdier than those of the Gray Wolf, and its brain case was smaller than that of a similarly sized gray wolf. The Dire Wolf's teeth were similar to the Gray Wolf's, only slightly larger, pointing to a hypercarnivorous to mesocarnivorous activity. Paleontologist R.M. Nowak states the dietary characteristics are primarily carnivorous as well as partially omnivorous. ![]() Spotted Hyena - Crocuta crocuta The spotted hyena (Crocuta crocuta), also known as the laughing hyena or tiger wolf, is a species of hyena native to Sub-Saharan Africa. It is listed as Least Concern by the IUCN on account of its widespread range and large numbers estimated at 10,000 individuals. The spotted hyena is the largest extant member of the Hyaenidae.[43] Adults measure 95.0—165.8 cm in body length, and have a shoulder height of 70.0-91.5 cm. Adult male spotted hyenas in the Serengeti weigh 40.5—55.0 kg (89—121 lb), while females weigh 44.5—63.9 kg (98—141 lb). Spotted hyenas in Zambia tend to be heavier, with males weighing on average 67.6 kg (149 lb), and females 69.2 kg (153 lb). Exceptionally large weights of 81.7 kg (180 lb) and 86 kg (190 lb) are known. It has been estimated that adult members of the now extinct Eurasian populations weighed 102 kg (225 lbs). ______________________________________________________________________
Edited by Taipan, Oct 15 2017, 05:22 PM.
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| Vivyx | Mar 12 2018, 11:15 AM Post #301 |
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Felines, sharks, birds, arthropods
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Black Ice and Vita are back? What's up, guys? (this is Catboy, btw. Used to be a stupid kid back in 2012-2014) |
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| CanineCanis | Mar 12 2018, 12:30 PM Post #302 |
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Herbivore
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Why? I personally believe cougar>leopard |
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| Black Ice | Mar 12 2018, 12:53 PM Post #303 |
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Drom King
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The leopard has the bigger more robust skull which both animals use to kill other animals. They're extremely similar in all other fighting aspects so my case is the one with the bigger heads gonna win. |
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| CanineCanis | Mar 12 2018, 12:56 PM Post #304 |
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Herbivore
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Doesn’t the cougar have more robust limbs? I guess with a bigger head the leopard would fare better against a Dire wolf, but I would favor a cougar over a leopard more times then not |
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| Black Ice | Mar 12 2018, 12:59 PM Post #305 |
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Drom King
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They aren't going to be killing or even really harming each other with their limbs. The cougar has a negligible robustness advantage with the limbs but the Leopard has a noticeable larger head even if their bite force is similar. Basically a bite from a Leopard is gonna cover more area than a Cougar bite for bite, so I'm going with the spotted cat to win. Regardless this thread is Dire Wolf vs Spotted Hyena, not Leopard vs Cougar. Edited by Black Ice, Mar 12 2018, 01:00 PM.
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| CanineCanis | Mar 12 2018, 01:05 PM Post #306 |
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Herbivore
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Cats use their limbs to overpower their opponent, since the cougar has more robust limbs I’d assume it could overpower the leopard and kill the Spotted cat before vice versa Anyways this isn’t the right topic to debate this so if you want to talk about this in the cougar Vs leopard thread I’d be glad to |
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| Ryo | Mar 12 2018, 10:39 PM Post #307 |
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Omnivore
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I am just hoping that Vod will join in on the party soon. All it takes is for him to see Black Ice comment (which holds more than just a bit of truth to it). However.... With some of the old veterans back, perhaps someone worthy will finally take the risk of battling me in glorious combat. As I have stated on the Spotted Hyena vs Gray Wolf (parity) match up, I favor a Gray Wolf over a Spotted Hyena, while I favor no dog over the Hyena. The reason being the Wolfs skull biting abilities. I do not know if this has actually been debated, but I have yet to witness an argument against the Wolfs ability to skull bite the slower but much tankier, more durable Hyena. Edited by Ryo, Mar 12 2018, 10:40 PM.
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| Black Ice | Mar 12 2018, 11:09 PM Post #308 |
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Drom King
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I agree with you on that; however I'm told Vita kicked my ass in Wolf vs Hyena so .I can't stand up to women in debates, they're unrivaled. |
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| Ryo | Mar 12 2018, 11:24 PM Post #309 |
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Omnivore
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Well...... There has to be a first time for everything.... And I am honored to be the first in 8 years to achieve this goal. Unrivaled. |
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| Vita | Mar 13 2018, 02:48 AM Post #310 |
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Cave Canem
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Hyena aren't as vurnable to skull bites when compared to wolves. Their consumption of hard food items is the reason for this.
![]() ![]() Source: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0065305#pone-0065305-g007 Unrelated, I'm surprised at how well the African wild dog performed. No doubt its domed skull shape in comparison with Canis. L had something to do with it. This study did mention that they used a single dire wolf skull, but they hardly mentioned it beyond that. One can argue that with increased size increased durability goes along with it in most cases. Which is why I wanted to quote the following:
Hyena can produce a high bite force with less effort compared to most canids, despite canids of comparable size being able produce similar forces, sometimes surpassing them.
Dire wolves had no bone consuming speciality but were known bone eaters, more so than the modern Grey. They had the raw muscle power. (Epicyon was so massive it would have crushed bone regardless via raw power, therefore less stress energy.) But by shape and size alone I have my doubts about wolves biting through a hyena's vault like skull. Animals aren't exactly known to bite until mechanical failure for the sake of argument. Edited by Vita, Mar 13 2018, 02:49 AM.
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| Black Ice | Mar 13 2018, 03:00 AM Post #311 |
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Drom King
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If I'm not mistaken wolves don't actually bite the vault of the skull when they employ skull bites, if anything they aim for the nape more than the actual skull. Wouldn't seem smart for an animal to bite directly the hardest part of another animals head without armor piercing teeth. |
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| Ryo | Mar 13 2018, 03:13 AM Post #312 |
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Omnivore
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But would you expect a Dire Wolf to be unable to crush through the skull of Hyenas as well? If I am not mistaking, slight increases in skull size and width can make quite a difference. I do not know if Dire Wolvers fought in a similar way to Gray Wolves, but even if they couldn't pierce the Hyenas skull (still unsure of it) going for the nose of the Hyena which I would assume a Gray Wolf tactic as well, could have the possible potential of filling the lungs with blood which could be very effective in a drawn out fight. That was atleast what I was told what happens when Wolves bites fighting dogs on the nose. Another thing I must have clarified. People are talking about these 2 "outmuscling" each other, but in recent times on this forum, I have seen some people make a big deal out of the Dire Wolf not being much different from the Gray Wolf, barely a bit larger and more robust. Being only a "bit larger and buffer" would likely not even surpass our Molosser dogs, let alone the even bulkier Hyena. If this is the case, I would still imagine the Dire Wolf to have a small height advantage due to the difference in bulk to make up for the mass, which could become useful in controlling another modstander. A Hyena has likely endured attacks superior to what a Dire Wolf could ever dish out, save for skull biting attacks. Hyenas appear pretty slow at killing each other, but that is likely what happens when you set a tank to kill a tank, but I have yet to witness them being fast killers, so I am unsure of if the Hyena can actually main the Wolf enough before its face have been torn enough for it to become much more defenseless through out the fight, and that is if the Dire Wolf can't actually puncture the skull as its special Card. |
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| Vita | Mar 13 2018, 03:46 AM Post #313 |
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Cave Canem
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Of course. My whole point is there's no area in particular that dire wolf would be able to get through the Hyenas skull. Realistically, it'll probably tear through its throat if it gets that opening, or proceed to maul it to death. Heavy damage to the neck, flank and chest. Limbs would be a crucial target as well. |
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| Black Ice | Mar 13 2018, 04:01 AM Post #314 |
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Drom King
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No, I don't think a Dire Wolf could crush the skull of a Spotted Hyena (I don't think a Hyena can crush the skull of a Grey Wolf either at same sizes). I am inclined to agree with Vita these two would not being trying to bite through each other's skulls as that's highly inefficient. As for your inquiry about people saying a DW is only a slightly more robust Grey Wolf, those people simply do not know what they're talking about to be honest and should be ignored. To put it short, A Dire Wolf is basically a Grey Wolf on steroids. They had powerful builds to tackle powerful prey through endurance and brute strength. Grey Wolves sacrificed a bit of power in exchange for speed and agility to chase more fleet footed prey when the megafauna started to die out. |
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| CanineCanis | Mar 13 2018, 05:01 AM Post #315 |
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Herbivore
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@Vita That signature is insane @BlackIce I can’t stand up to women neither in debates us guys aren’t good enough, by the way who said a Dire wolf is a slightly stronger gray wolf? A dire wolf is like the James Harrison version of a gray wolf’s @Ryo I favor the wolf over the hyena at parity as well however you probably know that as I’ve stated it a lot already Edited by CanineCanis, Mar 13 2018, 05:03 AM.
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us guys aren’t good enough, by the way who said a Dire wolf is a slightly stronger gray wolf? A dire wolf is like the James Harrison version of a gray wolf’s
10:00 AM Jul 11