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Dire Wolf v Spotted Hyena
Topic Started: Jun 17 2012, 05:58 PM (37,529 Views)
Taipan
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Dire Wolf - Canis dirus
The Dire wolf (Canis dirus) is an extinct carnivorous mammal of the genus Canis, and was most common in North America and South America from the Irvingtonian stage to the Rancholabrean stage of the Pleistocene epoch living 1.80 Ma – 10,000 years ago, existing for approximately 1.79 million years. lthough it was closely related to the Gray Wolf and other sister species, Canis dirus was not the direct ancestor of any species known today. Unlike the Gray Wolf, which is of Eurasian origin, the Dire Wolf evolved on the North American continent, along with the Coyote. The Dire Wolf co-existed with the Gray Wolf in North America for about 100,000 years. The dire wolf was about the same size as the largest modern gray wolves (Canis lupus), which are the Yukon wolf and the northwestern wolf. C. d. guildayi weighed on average 60 kilograms (132 lb) and C. d. dirus was on average 68 kg (150 lb). Despite superficial similarities to the Gray Wolf, there were significant differences between the two species. The legs of the Dire Wolf were proportionally shorter and sturdier than those of the Gray Wolf, and its brain case was smaller than that of a similarly sized gray wolf. The Dire Wolf's teeth were similar to the Gray Wolf's, only slightly larger, pointing to a hypercarnivorous to mesocarnivorous activity. Paleontologist R.M. Nowak states the dietary characteristics are primarily carnivorous as well as partially omnivorous.

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Spotted Hyena - Crocuta crocuta
The spotted hyena (Crocuta crocuta), also known as the laughing hyena or tiger wolf, is a species of hyena native to Sub-Saharan Africa. It is listed as Least Concern by the IUCN on account of its widespread range and large numbers estimated at 10,000 individuals. The spotted hyena is the largest extant member of the Hyaenidae.[43] Adults measure 95.0—165.8 cm in body length, and have a shoulder height of 70.0-91.5 cm. Adult male spotted hyenas in the Serengeti weigh 40.5—55.0 kg (89—121 lb), while females weigh 44.5—63.9 kg (98—141 lb). Spotted hyenas in Zambia tend to be heavier, with males weighing on average 67.6 kg (149 lb), and females 69.2 kg (153 lb). Exceptionally large weights of 81.7 kg (180 lb) and 86 kg (190 lb) are known. It has been estimated that adult members of the now extinct Eurasian populations weighed 102 kg (225 lbs).

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werewolf2012
 
How about Spotted hyena vs Dire wolf?


Edited by Taipan, Oct 15 2017, 05:22 PM.
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Vita
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Cave Canem
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Not exactly. Leopards are pretty robust, durable animals yet they tend to tolerate pain less so than wolves and hyena.

Also, there's really nothing to discuss regarding hyena and aggression, based on that information I posted.
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Black Ice
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K9Crocuta
Feb 12 2013, 07:21 AM
Not exactly. Leopards are pretty robust, durable animals yet they tend to tolerate pain less so than wolves and hyena.

Also, there's really nothing to discuss regarding hyena and aggression, based on that information I posted.
Durability and pain tolerance both correlate. You can be as durable as you want but if you have low pain threshold it really won't matter.

And for your second part I thought you were trying to say hyenas were more aggressive than wolves as my earlier post was addressing the opposite.
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Canidae
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Black Ice
Feb 12 2013, 07:13 AM
It basically is.
Vita i'd reply to that but as of now I'm not in the mood. I'll do it some other time.
No, it isn't at all. :P

You can have a massive pain tolerance but if a single hit kills you it is worthless, it is just feeling.
Durability is amount of physical damage that can be taken before death / breakage.
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Vita
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What is the source of that opinion? Is it credited? If so I'd like to read it.

It could be that social animals have a higher tolerance of pain as opposed to solitary hunters (having its members to fall back on), but again I'm not so sure if durability = pain tolerance.

And regarding hyena aggression, I doubt aggressiveness would be a factor as both alpha/dominate members of packs/clans display more aggressive behavior than others. It's like not either or would allow a strange wolf/hyena to wander about and do nothing about it. The more aggressive a member is, the better condition its in. The more likely it'll initiate a conflict (e.g. dominate female hyena interacting with lions without food being present.)
Edited by Vita, Feb 12 2013, 07:49 AM.
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Scalesofanubis
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k9boy
Jun 17 2012, 08:10 PM
Could a dire wolf survive being choked by leopards and lions?

Hyenas only survive that if the cat gives up too soon. Usually that goes the other way.

Voting for the dire wolf by the way. It's bigger, seems to have had a pretty serious bite force, and was likely more agile. Probably pound for pound tougher than a grey wolf, being built somewhat more robustly.

Also, yes, hyenas can take a beating, but they are not built of unubtanium, they are flesh and bone critters like everything else.

"another level entirely than canids" my left nut.
Edited by Scalesofanubis, Feb 13 2013, 03:15 AM.
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Black Ice
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Before the end of the day, I'm going to start totally making this seem like a mismatch in favor of the dire wolf..... then maybe i'll move on to leopard vs dire wolf..... as canidae said most people seriously don't know what they are talking about when it comes to canines and their capabilities. Just a few points though.

Grey wolves already have a superior jaw to a hyena (see wolf vs spotted hyena) and several other advantages. (Did me and vita finish our other debate? I forgot  :-/ ) So the larger all around superior dire wolf should be out of a spotted hyenas league.

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I forgot to note earlier-the immense limb bone strength of the dire wolf is also very interesting, as it also groups alongside the most powerful of the felids

Added with thick neck vertebrae, short robust and thick forelimbs (I know hyena has slightly more robust humeri and spine though) AND hindlimbs unlike the hyena who has underdeveloped backsides, a deep ribcage coupled with massive shoulder blades which are important places for muscle attachments, added with how canines in general have extremely big triceps (more so than cats and especially hyenas) indicating massive pulling power, and how the dire wolves skull allowed for bone crushing AND disemboweling at the same time......
These guys were basically amphicyon without the grappling.

This thread is proof on how little most people know on canines and how they overrate the odd hyena surviving a lion attack and their jaw power for bone crushing at the MOLARS not the canines or carnissals and how their necks are mainly strong to enable LIFTING objects off the ground, not pulling. The earlier comments in the first few pages were just sad. It should be clear a dire wolf (which is on average LARGER than a spotted hyena) would have a much easier time fighting and killing a leopard due to its body being overall more combat friendly and having superior weaponry to a spotted hyena. I have yet to hear a serious reason for why some posters say a hyena would murk a grey wolf and even a dire wolf. Same with k9boy saying a leopard would destroy a dire wolf (which again is bigger than a spotted hyena), but not a hyena rolleyes
Edited by Black Ice, Feb 13 2013, 03:39 AM.
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Vita
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A dire wolf v spotted hyena will never be a mismatch. Good luck with proving that. Even compared to the dire, the spotted hyena is has comparable strength.

Quote:
 
These guys were basically amphicyon without the grappling.

Source?
Edited by Vita, Feb 13 2013, 03:48 AM.
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Black Ice
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Quote:
 
A dire wolf v spotted hyena will never be a mismatch. Good luck with proving that. Even compared to the dire, the spotted hyena is has comparable strength.

If I seriously wanted to make this seem like a mismatch, with how much I know on canids like the grey wolf and the extinct dire wolf in particular. Making this seem like a mismatch won't be hard. Unless you want to hit the "try me" button. The hyena has absolutely no major advantage over the dire wolf and it only has two advantages (3 if you count size) over the weaker than dire wolf, the grey wolf. And I doubt their strength would be comparable seeming as how hyenas have underdeveloped back legs and core. While both the grey and dire wolves all around have a more powerful and combat friendly body. Your own 30lbs smaller female leopard ragdolls 30lbs bigger male leopard in a tug of war should have been proof enough of this. But then you apparently only posted that to show durability (like a grey wolf wouldn't have survived that ^o) )
Quote:
 
Source?

That was an opinion based off several similarities between amphi and the wolf.
Edited by Black Ice, Feb 13 2013, 07:11 AM.
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Vita
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(Hits 'try me' button.)

I look forward to your argument as to why this is a "mismatch."
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FelinePowah
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Black Ice
Feb 13 2013, 03:16 AM
added with how canines in general have extremely big triceps
They do???
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Black Ice
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Yes felinepowah I'll include that in the post I'm making as of now. It will take a minute.
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FelinePowah
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Black Ice
Feb 13 2013, 07:33 AM
Yes felinepowah I'll include that in the post I'm making as of now. It will take a minute.
But id think a canines pulling power is gonna come from its neck,shoulders and back and the same for the hyena and vs a Grey wolf the hyena is the more muscular and id say the Hyena is probably the same as a dire wolf in overal strength.

But i think the Dire wolves jaws are probably better are pumping out the damage and as its a wolf id also say its got an agility advantage, so id vote for the wolf.
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Canidae
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Black Ice;
Difference between male & female Spotteds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4xNoMwGvJlE

Female hyaena dragging a similarly sized male leopard, 00:27 onwards.

Edited by Canidae, Feb 13 2013, 07:47 AM.
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k9boy
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I would say a hyena would be just as durable if not a tiny bit more then a dire wolf. But I back the dire wolf in a fight.

@Canidae, that hyena looks bigger to me. Still an impressive feat of strength.
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FelinePowah
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k9boy
Feb 13 2013, 07:59 AM
I would say a hyena would be just as durable if not a tiny bit more then a dire wolf. But I back the dire wolf in a fight.

@Canidae, that hyena looks bigger to me. Still an impressive feat of strength.
I dont think it was an adult leopard.
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