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Dire Wolf v Spotted Hyena
Topic Started: Jun 17 2012, 05:58 PM (37,528 Views)
Taipan
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Dire Wolf - Canis dirus
The Dire wolf (Canis dirus) is an extinct carnivorous mammal of the genus Canis, and was most common in North America and South America from the Irvingtonian stage to the Rancholabrean stage of the Pleistocene epoch living 1.80 Ma – 10,000 years ago, existing for approximately 1.79 million years. lthough it was closely related to the Gray Wolf and other sister species, Canis dirus was not the direct ancestor of any species known today. Unlike the Gray Wolf, which is of Eurasian origin, the Dire Wolf evolved on the North American continent, along with the Coyote. The Dire Wolf co-existed with the Gray Wolf in North America for about 100,000 years. The dire wolf was about the same size as the largest modern gray wolves (Canis lupus), which are the Yukon wolf and the northwestern wolf. C. d. guildayi weighed on average 60 kilograms (132 lb) and C. d. dirus was on average 68 kg (150 lb). Despite superficial similarities to the Gray Wolf, there were significant differences between the two species. The legs of the Dire Wolf were proportionally shorter and sturdier than those of the Gray Wolf, and its brain case was smaller than that of a similarly sized gray wolf. The Dire Wolf's teeth were similar to the Gray Wolf's, only slightly larger, pointing to a hypercarnivorous to mesocarnivorous activity. Paleontologist R.M. Nowak states the dietary characteristics are primarily carnivorous as well as partially omnivorous.

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Spotted Hyena - Crocuta crocuta
The spotted hyena (Crocuta crocuta), also known as the laughing hyena or tiger wolf, is a species of hyena native to Sub-Saharan Africa. It is listed as Least Concern by the IUCN on account of its widespread range and large numbers estimated at 10,000 individuals. The spotted hyena is the largest extant member of the Hyaenidae.[43] Adults measure 95.0—165.8 cm in body length, and have a shoulder height of 70.0-91.5 cm. Adult male spotted hyenas in the Serengeti weigh 40.5—55.0 kg (89—121 lb), while females weigh 44.5—63.9 kg (98—141 lb). Spotted hyenas in Zambia tend to be heavier, with males weighing on average 67.6 kg (149 lb), and females 69.2 kg (153 lb). Exceptionally large weights of 81.7 kg (180 lb) and 86 kg (190 lb) are known. It has been estimated that adult members of the now extinct Eurasian populations weighed 102 kg (225 lbs).

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werewolf2012
 
How about Spotted hyena vs Dire wolf?


Edited by Taipan, Oct 15 2017, 05:22 PM.
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Black Ice
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:D Very well,
Size- First of all the dire wolf is bigger.
[b
 
Modern Wolf’s Distant Cousin: The Dire Wolf[/b]
]Justin H. Bohling, Former IWC Educator -- International Wolf Center, 06/10/2008

During the Pleistocene Epoch, between 1.8 million and 12,000 years ago, North America was home to a plethora of large mammals that would have rivaled those of the African savannah of today. One of the top predators in this ecosystem was the dire wolf (Canis dirus), the largest wild canine species the world has ever seen.

Superficially the dire wolf resembled the modern gray wolf (Canis lupus), but close examination has shown that they were two different animals. Adult dire wolves are estimated to have weighed 125 to 175 pounds, while adult gray wolves rarely reach 125 pounds. The dire wolf was actually shorter than the gray wolf, but its more compact and powerful body frame carried more weight.

The most important difference between dire and gray wolves is in their jaw structure. Dire wolves had a broader jaw than gray wolves as well as a higher sagittal crest on top of the skull. The sagittal crest is the bony part of the skull that protrudes from the top near the back where jaw muscles attach. In addition, the teeth of dire wolves, especially the carnassials, the teeth in the middle of the jaw used for cutting, were much larger and more massive. The large, powerful body and jaws suggest that dire wolves were built to eat large prey animals. Their low, strong bodies would have allowed them to pull down and drag large animals, and their massive jaws would have crushed through bone. Fossil jaws from dire wolves show considerable wear on the crowns of the carnassials and molars, suggesting bone eating. A group of scientists estimate that a dire wolf could bite with a force 60 percent greater than that of a modern gray wolf.

However, the dire wolf’s legs were not long or strong enough to enable them to chase fleet-footed prey, which probably limited them to slow-moving animals such as mammoths or giant ground sloths, and to carrion.

Canine evolution is a complex and controversial topic, and paleontologists are still debating the origin of the dire wolf. It appears that it was derived from a North American lineage of wolves separated from the gray wolves in Eurasia. The dire wolf was not the ancestor of the gray wolf or vice versa; they were derived from separate canine lineages on different continents. Many scientists believe that the dire wolf evolved from South American wolves and then suddenly appeared in North America during the Pleistocene.

There is also considerable debate as to when the dire wolf originated. Some scientists suggest that it first appeared 100,000 years ago, while others push the date back to 1.8 million years ago. Part of the problem with determining a reasonable date is that many other extinct canines have been found in the Americas from the same period, and several closely resemble the dire wolf. Scientists are not sure if they represent other canine species or primitive subspecies of the dire wolf

Quote from the dire wolf profile also I should note based off what reddhole posted for new measurments on the dire wolf, 175lbs were average for them. A large dire wolf could very well be over 200lbs seeing as how regular grey wolves can range form 110- large exceptional specimen being 175 plus lbs.
Quote:
 
The Dire Wolf was much larger than the Gray Wolf, and in fact was the largest living wild canine. It averaged about 5 feet long and weight about 175 pounds

A very large wolf would be around average for a dire wolf. A spotted hyena which most populations average around the 150-160 mark would still be smaller.

Weaponry-
Grey wolf
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Spotted hyena
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Dire wolf
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It really should be pretty clear that a modern grey wolf already edges over a spotted hyena in the jaw department in pretty much everything but bite force near the back of the mouth. For those that don't, here are some points
1. The grey wolf due to their incisors are better able to grapple and manipulate their opponents with the mouth.
2. The grey wolf has a larger gape than the hyena
3. The grey wolf has better dentition than a hyena ableing it to be better at disemboweling animals and being able to crush bone at the same time better at the front of the mouth.
And unrelated- The dire wolf had a larger head than the wolf. Which in turn has a comparable skull size to a spotted hyena
Quote:
 
The largest dire wolf skull is 33.3 cm x 17.9 cm while the
largest gray wolf skulls on record are 30.5 cm 15.5 cm and
28.9 cm x 16.3 cm. Of course larger dire wolf skulls likely
existed given that relatively few have been measured
compared to gray wolves.

The average male gray wolf skull from a large sub species has
a skull ~ 27.8 cm 14.7 cm.

Column 14 is upper carnassial length. The largest dire wolf
measured 3.55 cm while the largest gray wolf in this study
measured 3.05 cm. The average male gray wolf from a large
subspecies measured 2.59 cm. Other studies have had male gray wolves from large subspecies average 2.61 cm - 2.73 cm.

Column 15 measures upper carnine width (anterioposterior diameter). The largest dire wolf measured 1.75 cm while the
largest gray wolf measured 1.67 cm and the average male
gray wolf from a large subspecies measured 1.38 cm.
Another study found one gray wolf to have an upper canine
width of 1.8 cm and an average (males - large subspecies)
of 1.51 cm.

It should be painstakingly clear in the weapon department it goes Dire wolf>Grey wolf> Spotted hyena

Strength- First off I want to make one thing clear, hyena are not overall more powerful than a grey wolf, infact overall a grey wolf would have the strength advantage.
The spotted hyena has a strong and well developed neck and forequarters, but relatively underdeveloped hindquarters (just view vitas account of a male hyena failing to best a 30lbs smaller female leopard in a tug of war). The rump is rounded rather than angular, which prevents attackers coming from behind from getting a firm grip on it. Wolves on the contrary have powerful forequarters (to a lesser extant to the hyena) but they also have powerful hind quarters as well. That added with extremely large triceps are what enables them to adobt big cat killing techniques when it comes to hunting large prey (grabbing them by the throat etc and pulling them down)
From Ursus newest thread.
Cursorial canids clearly have very large triceps. Despite their relatively small size compared to the lion or spotted hyena and the positive allometry of triceps mass (exponent= 1.23 for carnivores, and 1.11 for all non-hoppers included in the study).

-Quick related note, info from Forelimb functional anatomy of primitive sabre-toothed felids, M. J. Salesa et al.:
Total triceps as % of total forearm muscle weight:
Cheetah: 15.8%
Leopard: 13.3%
Snow leopard: 14.7%
Jaguar: 12%
Cougar: 14.5%
Lion: 14.7%
Eurasian lynx: 16.2%
Jungle cat: 16.6%
Wolf: 17.2%
African wild dog: 17.4%
So in these two canid species (neither included in Alexander) the triceps do make up a relatively larger percentage of forelimb muscles.
Useful if you want to have an indication of total forelimb muscle mass based on triceps mass.
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The wolf and African wild dog have a higher % of triceps muscles in the forarms indicating a great need for pulling power, moreso than much larger cats like the lion (they don't need as much of a reliability on pulling power than a wolf because they can grapple and thus can use their strength to manipulate etc.) however that doesn't mean a wolf will beat a 500lb lion in a tug of war. However compared to body size, a wolf and AWD would have greater pulling power than most other animals. In a tug of war a wolf would most likely outdo a spotted hyena, while in a lifting contest the spotted hyenas stronger neck would give it the edge. I dare say the more powerful sturdier built dire wolf would ragdoll a hyena in a contest of strength even moreso than that 30lbs smaller female leopard lol

Agility- Dire wolf weren't very fast like the fleet footed grey wolf so their agility would be on par if not slightly less or more than a spotted hyena. This restricted them from hunting fast prey and thus they turned more to mammoths, ground sloths, and ice age bison.

Durability- The dire wolf is extinct sadly but since it's obviously all around superior in build to a grey wolf and a spotted hyena it should be the more durable animal (if you want to call that a significant advantage.)
Dire wolf
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Notice the short robust legs (animals with shorter legs generally have more robust ones), deep ribcage coupled with massive shoulder blades (important attachment points for muscles used for force exerting) huge sagittal crests and zygomatic arches. Compare the dire wolf to the 225lb cave hyena
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I would keep going but before I overload on one post I'd first like to seriously hear a good argument for the advantages people think a spotted hyena has over a dire wolf. I'd really like to hear this. Because this is basically a mismatch to me as I see nothing the hyena has over the dire wolf.

@canidae just saw your post. I'll edit in a bit. But just a show of how people think wolves head and necks are vastly inferior, One of these wolf held a boar stationary by the snout for a good deal while the others attacked it.
Edited by Black Ice, Feb 13 2013, 08:33 AM.
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k9boy
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Looked grown up to me.
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Black Ice
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What?
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k9boy
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I was replying to FelinePowah
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Black Ice
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FelinePowah
Feb 13 2013, 07:43 AM
Black Ice
Feb 13 2013, 07:33 AM
Yes felinepowah I'll include that in the post I'm making as of now. It will take a minute.
But id think a canines pulling power is gonna come from its neck,shoulders and back and the same for the hyena and vs a Grey wolf the hyena is the more muscular and id say the Hyena is probably the same as a dire wolf in overal strength.

But i think the Dire wolves jaws are probably better are pumping out the damage and as its a wolf id also say its got an agility advantage, so id vote for the wolf.
Where did you get a hyena being more muscular than a wolf?
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FelinePowah
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k9boy
Feb 13 2013, 08:14 AM
Looked grown up to me.
It did not look like
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Black Ice
Feb 13 2013, 08:38 AM
FelinePowah
Feb 13 2013, 07:43 AM
Black Ice
Feb 13 2013, 07:33 AM
Yes felinepowah I'll include that in the post I'm making as of now. It will take a minute.
But id think a canines pulling power is gonna come from its neck,shoulders and back and the same for the hyena and vs a Grey wolf the hyena is the more muscular and id say the Hyena is probably the same as a dire wolf in overal strength.

But i think the Dire wolves jaws are probably better are pumping out the damage and as its a wolf id also say its got an agility advantage, so id vote for the wolf.
Where did you get a hyena being more muscular than a wolf?
Ease up, its just my opinon..... dare i say they look more muscular  :o
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Canidae
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Camp Pan is an exceptionally large specimen.
Very few leopards look like him.

The cat in question may not have been 7 years or older, but was still large and by no means subadult.
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How do you not know that the triceps in wolves and other canines are large with an adaption for running? as i cant see pulling being the main reason.
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Black Ice
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Quote:
 
How do you not know that the triceps in wolves and other canines are large with an adaption for running? as i cant see pulling being the main reason

Triceps are muscles mainly used for pulling, not running. Had this been a cat I doubt you would ask this question.
Quote:
 
Camp Pan is an exceptionally large specimen.
Very few leopards look like him.

The cat in question may not have been 7 years or older, but was still large and by no means subadult.

Yes he's impressive!
Quote:
 
Ease up, its just my opinon..... dare i say they look more muscular :o

And chimp look more muscular than cheetah, yet that's not true. Infact cheetah are the more muscular of the two.
Edited by Black Ice, Feb 13 2013, 08:47 AM.
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FelinePowah
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Black Ice
Feb 13 2013, 08:46 AM
Quote:
 
How do you not know that the triceps in wolves and other canines are large with an adaption for running? as i cant see pulling being the main reason

Triceps are muscles mainly used for pulling, not running. Had this been a cat I doubt you would ask this question.
If the triceps were the only muscle used in pulling you might have an argument, but as pulling involves alot more muscles then just triceps i think using the triceps as a stand out point falls flat as really if you pull something the main muscles used are in your back and your legs.
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Black Ice
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Quote:
 
If the triceps were the only muscle used in pulling you might have an argument, but as pulling involves alot more muscles then just triceps i think using the triceps as a stand out point falls flat as really if you pull something the main muscles used are in your back and your legs.

I want you to go and pull a heavy object and feel the underside of your arms. Those are your triceps flexing and exerting force, not the biceps.
Biceps= Pushing
Triceps= Pulling.
I can't make it any more simple than that. Legs have quadriceps and hamstrings wich basically =/= biceps/triceps.
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Black Ice
Feb 13 2013, 08:59 AM
Quote:
 
If the triceps were the only muscle used in pulling you might have an argument, but as pulling involves alot more muscles then just triceps i think using the triceps as a stand out point falls flat as really if you pull something the main muscles used are in your back and your legs.

I want you to go and pull a heavy object and feel the underside of your arms. Those are your triceps flexing and exerting force, not the biceps.
Biceps= Pushing
Triceps= Pulling.
I can't make it any more simple than that. Legs have quadriceps and hamstrings wich basically =/= biceps/triceps.
Sorry but your wrong, if the tricep was the main muscle in pulling it would be huge, its an accesory muscle, its helps you pull, but its your back and legs that do the major work and i bet its probably the same for the wolf and i dont see wolves walking around with triceps of super size.

Do a back exercse in the gym, they all involve pulling and if anything its your bicep that helps more then your tricep as after any back exercse its also your bicep that aches.

Pushing involes chest and triceps
Edited by FelinePowah, Feb 13 2013, 09:12 AM.
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Black Ice
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Quote:
 
Sorry but your wrong, if the tricep was the main muscle in pulling it would be huge,

Wolf: 17.2%
That's huge. I'm afraid your wrong.
Quote:
 
its helps you pull, but its your back and legs that do the major work and i bet its probably the same for the wolf and i dont see wolves walking around with triceps of super size.

Do you see cheetah do the same? Chimps have larger muscles but less muscle mass in the forearms. You get size and density confused extremely easily.
Quote:
 
Do a back exercse in the gym, they all involve pulling and if anything its your bicep that helps more then your tricep as after any back exercse its also your bicep that aches

I want you to bite onto a heavy object and try pulling it with just your back. Don't move your legs or arms, just yank it with nothing but your back, I'll visit you in the hospital. Triceps are mainly for pulling, this should be common sense.
Quote:
 
Pushing involes chest and triceps

Incorrect, pushing involves mainly biceps and quadriceps.
Edited by Black Ice, Feb 13 2013, 09:26 AM.
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FelinePowah
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Black Ice
Feb 13 2013, 09:19 AM
Quote:
 
Sorry but your wrong, if the tricep was the main muscle in pulling it would be huge,

Wolf: 17.2%
That's huge. I'm afraid your wrong.

And the cheetah was 15.5% lets see it out pull a leopard!.




Quote:
 
Do you see cheetah do the same? Chimps have larger muscles but less muscle mass in the forearms. You get size and density confused extremely easily.


A chimp would out pull a cheetah cus it has a stronger back!

Quote:
 
Do a back exercse in the gym, they all involve pulling and if anything its your bicep that helps more then your tricep as after any back exercse its also your bicep that aches
I want you to bite onto a heavy object and try pulling it with just your back. Don't move your legs or arms, just yank it with nothing but your back, I'll visit you in the hospital. Triceps are mainly for pulling, this should be common sense. Pushing involes chest and triceps

What?? i can easly pull with just using my back!!! try pulling with out using your back??? oh look u cant as ur back is always used!!!



Quote:
 
Incorrect, pushing involves mainly biceps and quadriceps.


LOL push somthing, its mainly ur chest, then biceps and if ur moving then ur legs.

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