| Welcome to Carnivora. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Could Gorgosaurus survive in North America today?; This scenario has no people, so there is ice age megafauna | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 15 2012, 12:47 AM (7,200 Views) | |
| Admantus | Jul 15 2012, 12:47 AM Post #1 |
|
Herbivore
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
So, how would a population of gorgosaurus survive in north america today? Discuss. ( In this scenario, there are no humans alive and diseases don't count) Because gorgosaurus lived in the frigid north during the cretaceous, it'd have no problem surviving with it's feathered coat. Edited by Admantus, Jul 15 2012, 05:37 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| Replies: | |
|---|---|
| dinocat | Jul 21 2012, 02:21 AM Post #31 |
![]()
Heterotrophic Organism
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
It's an interesting study presented by Ursus arctos, but obviously it depends on the animal and the environment involved. If leopards were introduced into Australia, no doubt they would become the top predator. If you want to stick with prehistoric non-avian theropods, deinonychus would be a good bet to dominate in Australia as well. As far as disease and bacteria go, I agree with Admantus... animals adapt. Sure, a "War of the Worlds" end-scenario is possible, but not necessarily a forgone conclusion. Within the confines of the original topic (N. America, man does not exist, no megafauna), it's tough to say. There would be plenty of bison to eat, but is Gorgo fast enough to catch them? Would scavenging be enough? Also, I've always wondered how the lower oxygen content of today would affect dinosaurs (maybe decreased size over the long term?). Edited by dinocat, Jul 21 2012, 03:50 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| Megafelis Fatalis | Jul 21 2012, 02:29 AM Post #32 |
|
Carnivore
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Link (1) - Link (2) And no, Gorgosaurus weighed around 1000kg, right ?? so it is close to Prehistoric Bison size, which was the main prey for Smilodon Fatalis. 2 S.fatalis would be enough to kill Gorgosaurus. |
![]() |
|
| dinocat | Jul 21 2012, 02:48 AM Post #33 |
![]()
Heterotrophic Organism
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Within the confines of the OT, there are no sabretooth cats (today's animals, but no human interference). Hypothetically speaking though, smilodon would have as good a chance preying on Gorgosaurus as it would on Arctodus simus. Possible maybe, but really not worth the risk. Edit: OK, just read some more replies/conditions on page 1... man has never existed, no megafauna, but some ice age animals survive. Sorry, this topic is too complex (if man never existed, then maybe megafauna would still exist. If there is no megafauna, then maybe smilodon would not exist either)!!! Also, just looked up Gorgosaurus's weight (2.5 tons)... smilodon is probably lunch meat. Edited by dinocat, Jul 21 2012, 04:29 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| Admantus | Jul 21 2012, 03:27 AM Post #34 |
|
Herbivore
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
And gorgosaurus has an even higher chance of preying on smilodon Yay! the topic's back on track
|
![]() |
|
| Ursus arctos | Jul 21 2012, 05:30 AM Post #35 |
|
Autotrophic Organism
![]()
|
Thanks. I devote a lot of time and serious effort into making some of my posts, something I wouldn't find worthwhile at all if it weren't for posters like Coherantsheaf reading them. Others make a total mockery out of the entire thing, doing damn well (intentionally or not) to make even the idea of trying to hold a serious and productive discussion on the internet look like a joke. Admantus, being a great example of "Others".
I am poking fun at the topic? You don't have a clue! I was poking fun at those who showed so much disrespect to the topic to treat it as a fantasy question rather than the actually valid serious topic of discussion I thought it was. Hence, the sarcastic line about "coolness>evidence, reason, or logic" as this is the basic premise of works of fiction, and the criteria used by posters in this thread. When asked for an explanation, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and posted a great deal on the subject. Your response baffled me-you didn't understand how the sort of info necessary to serve as the groundwork for such discussions was relevant to it? Hence, the minimalistic line:
In hopes you'd put some actual effort into a discussion that interested you enough to start a thread over, but apparently not enough for you to actually devote a few of your brain cells to-as I later learned from your reply. Once your extreme disinterest became obvious, I showed to anyone who actually read my post how silly you've been. There were only two differences between my post and those of almost everyone else who had posted earlier in the thread: 1) My predictions were based on a groundwork of published scientific literature about similar issues to what is being discussed, and extrapolations from their conclusions. Evidence, reason, and logic. 2) My prediction wasn't favorable for Gorgosaurus's chances for reasons other than parasites and disease which I did not bring up in my post. With quotes I showed how otherwise they were the same-discussing the animal's ability to survive. Hence, I joked that you demonstrated that whether consciously or not you agree in practice with my sarcastic statement that "coolness> evidence, reason, or logic". Again, affirmed with the posts that have since followed, and your gleeful reaction:
I am leaving the topic open in hope that someone else who is actually willing to take the thread seriously has more to add to my second post in the thread. No point for me to actually argue with anyone about the topic who doesn't even care enough to read the info provided here. A poster on another forum has this as his signature (his username is Abaddon here, but he hardly posts): The skills required for competence often are the same skills necessary to recognize competence. Incompetent people don't know they are incompetent and are unable to recognize competence in others. |
![]() |
|
| Admantus | Jul 21 2012, 05:43 AM Post #36 |
|
Herbivore
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Thanks for clearing that up and i did read your posts, ursus. Edited by Admantus, Jul 21 2012, 11:12 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| Superpredator | Jul 21 2012, 02:18 PM Post #37 |
![]()
Apex Predator
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
So a Dinosaur that died 74 MYA will adapt to the diseases of 2012 before they all die out? Yeah, I don't think so. He is, he is stating his reasons and backing them up with evidence. |
![]() |
|
| SpinoInWonderland | Jul 21 2012, 02:28 PM Post #38 |
|
The madness has come back...
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
The scenario is that the diseases are not to be taken into account, just read the OP |
![]() |
|
| Superpredator | Jul 21 2012, 02:32 PM Post #39 |
![]()
Apex Predator
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
How is this meant to be natural then?? Also, what about the new prey, the new predators? Use logic, people. |
![]() |
|
| Admantus | Jul 21 2012, 11:14 PM Post #40 |
|
Herbivore
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
The discussion is about how the native animals will react and adapt to the presence of the gorgosaurus. This isn't about how probable the scenario is. I stated that in my previous posts. |
![]() |
|
| dinocat | Jul 22 2012, 06:47 AM Post #41 |
![]()
Heterotrophic Organism
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
This is a hypothetical situation. We are talking about animals that have been extinct for tens of millions of years -- logic has to be suspended. Although it's nice to fantasize about, travelling backwards in time is practically impossible (excluding unimaginably small, theoretical particles). The only way humans will ever see living dinosaurs is if A) There is an undiscovered cryptid population in some remote, unexplored area of the world and B) Humans biologically engineer them from birds. The first scenario is highly unlikely and in the second scenario, the recreations wouldn't be real dinosaurs -- only our best approximation. You have to use your imagaination. Admantus's hypothetical scenario could have played out as follows: Dinosaurs survive the Cretaceous-Paleogene extinction, but only in South America. When the Isthmus of Panama rises, Gorgosaurus crosses over much like the terror birds did in reality (yes, I know there have been no Gorgosaurus fossils found in SA). In this scenario, bacteria and disease should only be as big a factor to Gorgosaurus as it was to Titanis walleri. Edited by dinocat, Jul 22 2012, 07:02 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| Admantus | Jul 22 2012, 07:03 AM Post #42 |
|
Herbivore
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
A much more likely scenario then the one we have here, dinocat. That could happen. |
![]() |
|
| Meg_Man | Jul 22 2012, 07:22 AM Post #43 |
|
Heterotrophic Organism
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
@ Ursus Arctos Great contribution in this thread. Though I would like to make some points; It is important to note that what kind of environments Gorgosaurus libratus inhabited. Paleoecological studies reveal that Gorgosaurus inhabited lush floodplains and similar environments. If G. libratus is introduced in modern Northern America, it would attempt to explore and settle in to these kinds of environments. Here is an example: http://www.paleoportal.org/index.php?globalnav=flora_fauna§ionnav=assemblage&submission_id=2359# Next important thing to determine is that what kind of animals live in these kind of environments in modern North America. Are they abundant enough to sustain a macro-predator like G. libratus? If the answer is yes, then we can move towards biological characteristics and behavioral competencies of G. libratus. It is possible that this animal could run fast. Even experts do not dispute this suggestion. At least, prior to reaching adulthood, G. libratus may have been capable of chasing and preying upon very fast and agile animals. Adult individual could use forest based settings to ambush prey but even it wouldn't be slow. It could also scare off other smaller macro-predators and scavengers from their kills. Also, what is known about prey tracking capabilities of G. libratus? I find this study useful: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19711459 As far as tolerance factor is concerned, large theropods weren't softies. They could take lot of punishment and keep on living. This is evident from even the fossil record of G. libratus. Toughness might even have compensated for intelligence in some aspects. This favors the position of G. libratus against modern macro-predators and even diseases. IMO, dinosaurs could handle more punishment then mammals. I doubt that adult G. libratus would have to worry about potential threat from other macro-predators due to its size and power. It would rather be more concerned about acquiring prey. In addition, fossil record reveals that some tyrannosaurids were gregarious. If this holds true for G. libratus or it develops this capability as a survival strategy in the modern setting, it can do very well. Of course! We cannot know everything about an extinct taxon. This makes it very difficult for us to argue for an extinct taxon in this kind of debate. Edited by Meg_Man, Jul 22 2012, 07:51 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| theropod | Jul 22 2012, 07:34 AM Post #44 |
|
palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Excellent resume, Meg_man! I agree with you at those points. |
![]() |
|
| Ursus panthera | Sep 29 2012, 04:17 AM Post #45 |
![]()
Artiodactyla
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
They might do well probably even becoming apex predator. |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Debate & discussion of dinosaur related topics. · Next Topic » |
| Theme: Dinosauria light | Track Topic · E-mail Topic |
9:36 AM Jul 11
|
Powered by ZetaBoards Premium · Privacy Policy


)


![]](http://z4.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)







9:36 AM Jul 11