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| I'm skeptical about the weight of amphicoelias | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 31 2012, 09:02 AM (13,573 Views) | |
| Godzillasaurus | Jul 31 2012, 09:02 AM Post #1 |
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Reptile King
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Though amphicoelias was very large, the fact that it was a diplodocid is making me skeptical about its weight. Diplodocids were very slender and lightly built for sauropod standards, being longer, though lighter than brachiosaurs and titanosaurs. Most of the candidates for the "world's largest dinosaur" are dinosaurs like Argentinosaurus, puertasaurus, and bruhathkaysaurus, all of which were titanosaurs. Amphicoelias is another candidate. However, it was a diplodocid. When you look at size comparisons with other sauropods, it looks like a human with a bunch of mice surrounding it. IT LOOKS FRICKIN HUGE! Another large diplodocid, supersaurus, weighed in at only 35-40 tons. Amphicoelias was estimated to have weighed a whopping 122 tons! That is assuming the proportions were correct. Something isn't right here. It doesn't make sense that the diplodocids, which were slender and lightly-built for sauropod standards, would have the world's heaviest dinosaur (other than bruhathkaysaurus) on their side. Amphicoelias makes titanosaurs look like wimps. That is, if it wasn't much smaller, and/or if it even existed. |
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| Godzillasaurus | Aug 1 2012, 05:43 AM Post #61 |
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Reptile King
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Maybe we should just live with that fact that puertasaurus was the largest dinosaur, knowing how bruhathkaysaurus, like amphicoelias, might be all about hype. |
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| Jinfengopteryx | Aug 1 2012, 05:44 AM Post #62 |
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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Agreed. |
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| theropod | Aug 1 2012, 05:56 AM Post #63 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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And the closest relatives of elephants? Sirenians, of which all extant forms are not only aquatic but far smaller. You can´t judge about an animals possible size by looking at their relatives. Of course size estimates can be wrong, but as IO wrote, I have seens convincing arguments both for larger and smaller sizes. imo there is a trend to make such animals smaller than they are, or at least to give the lowermost size figure, nowaday. A logical reaction to centuries of exageration, but of course possibly wrong in some cases.
I already live with that fact. It seems more likely to exist, and even if they all existed it probably outweighed Amphicoelias fragillimus. Being the only sauropod in that size range with actual remains to study, though they are few, it certainly has more credentials that other sauropods. At least we have definite proof for it existence, and we know that it was huge. |
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| Godzillasaurus | Aug 1 2012, 06:01 AM Post #64 |
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Reptile King
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Well, I don't really know what to say about the whole families thing. I'm trying to find out the answers, but I just don't know how. And yes, maybe we should just say puertasaurus is the largest dinosaur. That is, until we find more evidence of something more massive. |
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| theropod | Aug 1 2012, 06:20 AM Post #65 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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I doubt that we have ANY evidence for something definitely more massive. Of course you can make a very liberal estimate for amphicoelias and claim it to be larger, but still nobody knows whether it existed, and one could do the same with Puertasaurus. IF bruhatkayosaurus had existed, it could have been larger, depending on the sauropod we take as a reference for extrapolating size (Puertasaurus 40m estimate seems to be the upper size, while bruh being the same size bases on a low figure for Argentinosaurus), but as it probably didn´t, that has no importance. To complete this, my largest sauropods at the moment: :::::::::Puertasaurus (40+m, adding cartilage, 170+t) ::::::::Parabrontopus/Breviparopus/Brachiosaurus or whatever this all the time occuring huge brachiosaurs are (40+m, adding cartilage, 150+t) :::::::Amphicoelias (60+m adding cartilage, 120+t) ::::::Turiasaurus (35-40m?, what I have seen of it doesn´t seem quite as huge as Puertasaurus and the others, but it´s size figures are still enourmous, 120+t) :::::Argentinosaurus (30, maybe 35m, 100+t, that of course only at the upper estimate) |
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| Jinfengopteryx | Aug 1 2012, 06:28 AM Post #66 |
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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Have a look at this: http://paleoking.blogspot.de/2011/11/15-biggest-dinosaurs-youve-never-heard.html |
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| theropod | Aug 1 2012, 06:38 AM Post #67 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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I know it. appearantly there are many huge undetermined footprints. The list however doesn´t really rank them after size, and it includes many animals appearantly somewhat smaller that the ones I listed. Maybe I´ll one day make such a list myself. |
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| SpinoInWonderland | Aug 1 2012, 03:52 PM Post #68 |
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The madness has come back...
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No it didn't, the most liberal mass estimate for Puertasaurus is 110 tonnes, and that's from Paleo-King's restoration. Why are cretaceous sauropods so overatted? I could write a 999,999 page essay on why Jurassic sauropods should be the largest |
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| SpinoInWonderland | Aug 1 2012, 04:04 PM Post #69 |
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The madness has come back...
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Paleo King says that Puertasaurus has a mass of 110 tonnes, so the link you posted, does not support your side, Godzillaman. Edited by SpinoInWonderland, Aug 1 2012, 04:05 PM.
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| theropod | Aug 1 2012, 05:14 PM Post #70 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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I know you are somewhat biased towards Amphicoelias, no offence, but do the calculation yourself! you can´t directly compare different estimates, just look at the animals and use logic. So far the highest official mass estimate belongs to Bru. And there are reasons why most sources don´t accept A. fragillimus. 110t is both the lower limit in this and in amphicoelias case, it´s as simple as that. There just haven´t been any other estimates for Puertasaurus. |
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| Jinfengopteryx | Aug 1 2012, 06:16 PM Post #71 |
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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Do it, if you want to convince somebody. |
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| Jinfengopteryx | Aug 1 2012, 06:18 PM Post #72 |
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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Clearly not. People think it's an easier prey than Triceratops. |
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| SpinoInWonderland | Aug 1 2012, 06:38 PM Post #73 |
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The madness has come back...
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Jurassic sauropods have virtually no competitors, but Cretaceous sauropods face heavy competition from ornithopods. The abundance of huge sauropods in the Jurassic would force theropods to evolve larger sizes, which causes the sauropods to grow even larger to avoid predation, thus causing an evolutionary size growth loop in the Jurassic. Also, the low-nutrient food in the Jurassic period necessitated a larger digestive tract, so the sauropods that lived in that time needed to grow larger to accommodate a larger digestive system. The Cretaceous period did not necessitate such digestive systems. Most Jurassic theropods hunted in packs, which needed even larger size to deter or beat them. Many Cretaceous sauropods had armor, therefore not needing to be so large, but Jurassic sauropods did not, so they needed greater size to compensate. |
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| Superpredator | Aug 1 2012, 06:41 PM Post #74 |
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Apex Predator
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This is a 999,999 page essay? . Anyway, good points.
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| Jinfengopteryx | Aug 1 2012, 06:47 PM Post #75 |
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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Actually, in the cretaceous of the northern hemisphere, Sauropods had hard competition, but in the southern one, they were the dominant herbivores. There the enemys weren't harder, than those in the jurassic.
Seems like this new plants, mainly were on the northern hemisphere(grass, modern trees, flowers).
According to Planet Dinosaur, we have evidence that Mapusaurus hunted in packs. Have we evidence that Jurassic Theropods rather hunted in packs?
Not many. Such an armour is only evidenced in Saltasaurus(who's quite small), not in Puertasaurus or Argentinosaurus. |
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. Anyway, good points.
9:36 AM Jul 11