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Felids vs Canids at parity, who's stronger?; Who's stronger and most capable in a fight at parity?
Topic Started: Jul 31 2012, 11:41 AM (44,646 Views)
kuri
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K9Crocuta
Apr 4 2013, 03:06 AM
Or:

Dingo
AWD
Dhole
Numerous domestic dog breeds within 20-40 pounds (larger bobcats would still be outclassed e.g. record bobcats, weighing 50+ would have no chance against pitbulls, bulldogs, wolves etc etc.


wild guess

and bobcats dominates coyotes
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Vita
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kuri
Apr 4 2013, 03:29 AM
K9Crocuta
Apr 4 2013, 03:06 AM
Or:

Dingo
AWD
Dhole
Numerous domestic dog breeds within 20-40 pounds (larger bobcats would still be outclassed e.g. record bobcats, weighing 50+ would have no chance against pitbulls, bulldogs, wolves etc etc.


wild guess

and bobcats dominates coyotes
Wild guess, my foot.

According to many sources in the bobcat v coyote thread, they do not.
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Munfy
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I really dont think bobcats dominate coyotes, people really seem to underestimat coyotes there social interaction is more aggresive as nd violent than wolfs or wild dogs thus why they rarely form large packs, I would favour a healty male coyote of average size over a average sized healty male bobcat, most caninds dont just bite they often bite hold and shake which can do alot of damage to animals thier size and smaller, a quick google search will dispell the rumour of bobcats dominating coyotes
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poison
Aug 4 2012, 08:38 AM
Police shoot cougar after attack on German Shepherd

Poll

Should the public be concerned about cougars roaming free in Ontario?

No, the recent attack was an escaped cat.
Yes, they are vicious predators.
Caution should be used as with all wildlife.
If they are here, they’re rare; I’d love to see one.
They were here before us; get used to it.

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HERE TO STAY Cougars are officially back in Ontario

THE MUSKOKAN — According to a recent report in the Canadian Field-Naturalist titled Evidence Confirms the...

UTTERSON - Police shot a cougar over the weekend after it viciously attacked a German shepherd in Utterson, leaving it for dead.

Hearing her family dog Indy scream shortly before 10 p.m. on Saturday July 7, Middaugh Road resident Doreen Rick ran outside to find a cougar mauling the pet. The cougar didn’t budge when her grandson’s girlfriend attempted to scare it off.

“She let the air horn off and it didn’t affect it at all,” said Rick. “She screamed because he picked the dog up — and she’s a small white German shepherd — and dragged it across the lawn and just laid on him and chewed on him.”

The vicious attack left the dog clinging to life.

“It chewed on its head and went right down to the skull,” said Rick.

Rick phoned police while the attack was going on, who told her to stay indoors and to keep all windows and doors closed. The cougar then turned its attention to Rick’s other pets.

“It came right up to my screen after seeing my cats sitting in the window and started pacing,” she said. “We closed all our windows, took the cats away and it went back to the dog again.”

Rick said police arrived within minutes and shot the cougar. Even then, the animal did not go down easily.

“It took six shots to actually put it down,” said Rick.

On the morning of Monday, July 9, OPP Const. Maureen Tilson confirmed that officers had shot a cougar over the weekend, and that crews from the Ministry of Natural Resources were also called. The cougar was taken away by ministry crews after the shooting.

Although few other details were disclosed, Tilson said police would release an official statement on the incident later in the day.

Despite the attack, Indy proved more resilient that his attacker.

“The police were standing there, they had shot the cougar … they wanted to know what to do about the dog, and all of a sudden they said ‘oh my god he jumped up,’” said Rick. “He jumped up; he was dazed of course because he was all chewed in his head.”

Indy was taken to a local animal hospital, but in the end was also dispatched.

“We just had him put to sleep, because he was chewed right down to his skull above his ears and his head,” said Rick.

After the attack, Rick said both she and police approached the owner of Guha’s Tigers and Lions, an animal farm in Utterson that features wild cats. Rick was convinced that because the cougar is declawed, it did not come from the facility.

“It’s got nothing to do him with him whatsoever; he said I would not declaw a wild cat like that,” she said. “He said ‘I would never declaw a cat,’ he said that is cruel. He swears that it is not his cat.’”

The incident has left Rick both shocked and stunned. She said she hasn’t even seen a deer in the area for years.

“It wasn’t scared of people and we kept saying, what if there was a kid out there playing and not just a dog? That’s the scary thing,” she said.
Declawed puma killed a german shepherd? Sounds like a job for a dogo. We've seen what they do to captive "declawed" puma.
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k9boy
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Dogs beat some cats. Cats beat some dogs. End of thread.
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FelinePowah
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Hyaena
Apr 4 2013, 05:31 AM
Declawed puma killed a german shepherd? Sounds like a job for a dogo. We've seen what they do to captive "declawed" puma.
oh ha ha ha rolleyes
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Shaochilong
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At parity felids would unquestionably win in a fight. Whether they are stronger[
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Animal King
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I think only a few canids would win at parity or beat larger felines.
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Animal King
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How do we know puma are declawed? We know there not as strong as you would see right in wild. But how do we know about the conditions of the pumas and dogs being fought? If you have some evidence explaining the conditions of the animals being fought that would be great!
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ARM0R
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Some felids are extremely overrated - that´s for sure. Just take a look at the "Ocelot vs Staffordshire Bull Terrier" poll. 5 people voted for the Ocelot even though it physically can´t be a serious threat to a Staffordshire Bull Terrier no matter wether we´re talking about same weight or not. An Ocelot´s jaws aren´t any larger than those of the average domestic cat, its neck - its entire body structure is large but visually rather fragile and its small claws are definetely not going to make up for that.

Let´s just take a look at an Ocelot and a SBT:





SBT: Much more solid build, huge jaws, by far higher bite force even as a puppy (0:47)

These two just aren´t compareable even at parity.
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FelinePowah
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But cats are not ment to be solid, they are agile and flexible animals...they become solid when they have to be...when they need to turn on the muscle they can turn it on for explosive power.

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Animal King
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Boz shepherds, kangals, CAO, game apbt, gull terr, jagdterrier, patterdale terrier, fila mastiffs could all beat a feline larger than themselves or at equal weights.
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Animal King
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And possibly a wolf as well.
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StoJa
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Grandej221
Jun 20 2013, 07:56 AM
Boz shepherds, kangals, CAO, game apbt, gull terr, jagdterrier, patterdale terrier, fila mastiffs could all beat a feline larger than themselves or at equal weights.
Yeah, I'll take a tiger, lion, or jaguar over all those 11 times out of 10. And a cougar or leopard could dispatch all of those with ease as well.
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Gato Gordo
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Grandej221
Jun 18 2013, 09:31 AM
How do we know puma are declawed? We know there not as strong as you would see right in wild. But how do we know about the conditions of the pumas and dogs being fought? If you have some evidence explaining the conditions of the animals being fought that would be great!
How do we know puma are declawed?

Because in some of the videos of these fights you can see the puma scratching the dogo with hind and fore claws and the dogo's coat (which is white) is not even roughed. While the clawing would not kill the dogo it would (at the very least) redden its coat. However, even if the pumas are not declawed (let's say that in some cases they aren't), their ability to inflict damage with their claws is grossly impaired by their poor physical condition.

We know there not as strong as you would see right in wild.

This is gross understatement. These pumas are not just a "little bit less strong" than healthy wild pumas, they are VERY MUCH WEAKER AND UNFIT than healthy wild pumas.

But how do we know about the conditions of the pumas and dogs being fought?

Their poor condition is evident to any one (except those who are in denial and refuse to see it).

Keeping a large carnivore in good captivity conditions is very difficult and expensive, and needs to be done under the supervision of professional veterinarians and zoologists. Captives captured as adults often die in captivity, so most captives in good conditions are born captives or brought to captivity as cubs. The type of husbandry (animal "housing") must have lots of stimulation and the captive environment MUST reproduce as best as possible the animal's natural habitat, and MUST not be threatening to the captives.

None of these conditions for good quality captivity are satisfied for the pumas used to "train" or fight the dogos in the Pruebas de Campo. The guys who manage these pumas are not qualified zoologists, but dogo breeders who may pay for a backyard veterinarian to provide the pumas minimal attention and just keep them alive. The husbandry is very poor and monotonous, the captive environment is very threatening because the pumas are forced to do something that they never do naturally and so is completely alien for them: fighting a potentially dangerous dog in the presence of a human crowd.

These pumas are hand fed and so don't kill to eat, so their jaws are atrophied and their limbs are weak (they never had to subdue prey). They never patrol territory, so they are unfit. At best (and this is stretching things too far), if they would NOT be forced to fight the dogos they could be well fed sedentary specimens, but being forced to fight dogos, you can bet your little ass they are extremely stressed and get ill from that frequent experience (excessive stress diminishes your immunological system and you die from opportunistic diseases).

If you have some evidence explaining the conditions of the animals being fought that would be great!

Please read above. It is indirect evidence, but it is solid. If you can't see this massive evidence, then you are living in denial.

It's not rocket science: just show the videos you get from the web to any veterinarian or zoologist familiar with animal captivity and ask them about the condition of these pumas. I have done this many times, and even asked people (in Argentina) who are familiar with the local fauna: the dogo breeders get their pumas mostly as cubs when a female puma dies in a hunt (and in practically all cases the pumas are shot while they tree and not killed by dogos). Sometimes they get them from backyard zoos. The breeders or hunters only provide sufficient care to keep the cats alive for the "training" and fighting with the dogos, and most pumas live at most 2-3 years. A captive animal whose only purpose is to fight dogos in a pen is a tortured creature. While these fights are cruel and illegal, they keep going because law enforcement in Argentina is lax. However, many hunters and dogo enthusiasts now oppose these fights.


Edited by Gato Gordo, Jun 22 2013, 09:24 AM.
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