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| Felids vs Canids at parity, who's stronger?; Who's stronger and most capable in a fight at parity? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 31 2012, 11:41 AM (44,646 Views) | |
| kuri | Apr 4 2013, 03:29 AM Post #316 |
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Omnivore
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wild guess and bobcats dominates coyotes |
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| Vita | Apr 4 2013, 03:46 AM Post #317 |
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Cave Canem
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Wild guess, my foot. According to many sources in the bobcat v coyote thread, they do not. |
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| Munfy | Apr 4 2013, 03:54 AM Post #318 |
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Herbivore
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I really dont think bobcats dominate coyotes, people really seem to underestimat coyotes there social interaction is more aggresive as nd violent than wolfs or wild dogs thus why they rarely form large packs, I would favour a healty male coyote of average size over a average sized healty male bobcat, most caninds dont just bite they often bite hold and shake which can do alot of damage to animals thier size and smaller, a quick google search will dispell the rumour of bobcats dominating coyotes |
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| Vita | Apr 4 2013, 05:31 AM Post #319 |
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Cave Canem
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Declawed puma killed a german shepherd? Sounds like a job for a dogo. We've seen what they do to captive "declawed" puma. |
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| k9boy | Apr 4 2013, 05:33 AM Post #320 |
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Apex Predator
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Dogs beat some cats. Cats beat some dogs. End of thread. |
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| FelinePowah | Apr 4 2013, 08:04 PM Post #321 |
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Pussy Lover
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oh ha ha ha
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| Shaochilong | Apr 4 2013, 10:44 PM Post #322 |
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Herbivore
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At parity felids would unquestionably win in a fight. Whether they are stronger[ |
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| Animal King | Jun 18 2013, 09:25 AM Post #323 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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I think only a few canids would win at parity or beat larger felines. |
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| Animal King | Jun 18 2013, 09:31 AM Post #324 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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How do we know puma are declawed? We know there not as strong as you would see right in wild. But how do we know about the conditions of the pumas and dogs being fought? If you have some evidence explaining the conditions of the animals being fought that would be great! |
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| ARM0R | Jun 18 2013, 10:24 AM Post #325 |
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Herbivore
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Some felids are extremely overrated - that´s for sure. Just take a look at the "Ocelot vs Staffordshire Bull Terrier" poll. 5 people voted for the Ocelot even though it physically can´t be a serious threat to a Staffordshire Bull Terrier no matter wether we´re talking about same weight or not. An Ocelot´s jaws aren´t any larger than those of the average domestic cat, its neck - its entire body structure is large but visually rather fragile and its small claws are definetely not going to make up for that. Let´s just take a look at an Ocelot and a SBT: SBT: Much more solid build, huge jaws, by far higher bite force even as a puppy (0:47) These two just aren´t compareable even at parity. |
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| FelinePowah | Jun 18 2013, 04:49 PM Post #326 |
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Pussy Lover
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But cats are not ment to be solid, they are agile and flexible animals...they become solid when they have to be...when they need to turn on the muscle they can turn it on for explosive power. |
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| Animal King | Jun 20 2013, 07:56 AM Post #327 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Boz shepherds, kangals, CAO, game apbt, gull terr, jagdterrier, patterdale terrier, fila mastiffs could all beat a feline larger than themselves or at equal weights. |
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| Animal King | Jun 20 2013, 07:57 AM Post #328 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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And possibly a wolf as well. |
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| StoJa | Jun 20 2013, 11:19 AM Post #329 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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Yeah, I'll take a tiger, lion, or jaguar over all those 11 times out of 10. And a cougar or leopard could dispatch all of those with ease as well. |
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| Gato Gordo | Jun 22 2013, 09:21 AM Post #330 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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How do we know puma are declawed? Because in some of the videos of these fights you can see the puma scratching the dogo with hind and fore claws and the dogo's coat (which is white) is not even roughed. While the clawing would not kill the dogo it would (at the very least) redden its coat. However, even if the pumas are not declawed (let's say that in some cases they aren't), their ability to inflict damage with their claws is grossly impaired by their poor physical condition. We know there not as strong as you would see right in wild. This is gross understatement. These pumas are not just a "little bit less strong" than healthy wild pumas, they are VERY MUCH WEAKER AND UNFIT than healthy wild pumas. But how do we know about the conditions of the pumas and dogs being fought? Their poor condition is evident to any one (except those who are in denial and refuse to see it). Keeping a large carnivore in good captivity conditions is very difficult and expensive, and needs to be done under the supervision of professional veterinarians and zoologists. Captives captured as adults often die in captivity, so most captives in good conditions are born captives or brought to captivity as cubs. The type of husbandry (animal "housing") must have lots of stimulation and the captive environment MUST reproduce as best as possible the animal's natural habitat, and MUST not be threatening to the captives. None of these conditions for good quality captivity are satisfied for the pumas used to "train" or fight the dogos in the Pruebas de Campo. The guys who manage these pumas are not qualified zoologists, but dogo breeders who may pay for a backyard veterinarian to provide the pumas minimal attention and just keep them alive. The husbandry is very poor and monotonous, the captive environment is very threatening because the pumas are forced to do something that they never do naturally and so is completely alien for them: fighting a potentially dangerous dog in the presence of a human crowd. These pumas are hand fed and so don't kill to eat, so their jaws are atrophied and their limbs are weak (they never had to subdue prey). They never patrol territory, so they are unfit. At best (and this is stretching things too far), if they would NOT be forced to fight the dogos they could be well fed sedentary specimens, but being forced to fight dogos, you can bet your little ass they are extremely stressed and get ill from that frequent experience (excessive stress diminishes your immunological system and you die from opportunistic diseases). If you have some evidence explaining the conditions of the animals being fought that would be great! Please read above. It is indirect evidence, but it is solid. If you can't see this massive evidence, then you are living in denial. It's not rocket science: just show the videos you get from the web to any veterinarian or zoologist familiar with animal captivity and ask them about the condition of these pumas. I have done this many times, and even asked people (in Argentina) who are familiar with the local fauna: the dogo breeders get their pumas mostly as cubs when a female puma dies in a hunt (and in practically all cases the pumas are shot while they tree and not killed by dogos). Sometimes they get them from backyard zoos. The breeders or hunters only provide sufficient care to keep the cats alive for the "training" and fighting with the dogos, and most pumas live at most 2-3 years. A captive animal whose only purpose is to fight dogos in a pen is a tortured creature. While these fights are cruel and illegal, they keep going because law enforcement in Argentina is lax. However, many hunters and dogo enthusiasts now oppose these fights. Edited by Gato Gordo, Jun 22 2013, 09:24 AM.
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