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Felids vs Canids at parity, who's stronger?; Who's stronger and most capable in a fight at parity?
Topic Started: Jul 31 2012, 11:41 AM (44,644 Views)
Animal King
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Alright thanks I guess I didn't mean to be disrespectful or anything just saying my opinion. I'll stop posting.
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Vita
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Grandej221,

Would you agree that a working breed who spends its life as nothing more than a beloved pet is "soft" or "unconditioned" when compared to its working counterparts? Every now and again you'll come across a well toned pet dog, but in general, working breeds are in better condition. They're stronger, possess more stamina and (assuming they're a gripping breed) will bite harder. It is no different for wild animals.
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kuri
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Grandej221
Jun 23 2013, 08:52 AM
Alright thanks I guess I didn't mean to be disrespectful or anything just saying my opinion. I'll stop posting.
be cool, the main problem were the "hundreds" reply.
Make less replys and use the quoting function.
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Veli
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canids, of course
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FelinePowah
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Veli
Jun 23 2013, 07:54 PM
canids, of course
Ha ha in your dreams kiddo
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Veli
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FelinePowah
Jun 23 2013, 08:17 PM
Veli
Jun 23 2013, 07:54 PM
canids, of course
Ha ha in your dreams kiddo
Posted Image
Edited by Veli, Jun 24 2013, 11:12 PM.
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Jinfengopteryx
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Uhm, could you write a comment what backs up your claim, instead of using one of these dumb images?
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Vivec
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There hasn't been yet one comment backing up the felines, is it a necessity? Unless we compare all felines and canids extinct and extant we can't make a fair or truly accurate comparison.
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Jinfengopteryx
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I didn't want to say that he is off, I just wanted to say that this is not an adequate answer. FP of course wasn't better either.
Edited by Jinfengopteryx, Jun 25 2013, 12:39 AM.
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Vivec
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Jinfengopteryx
Jun 25 2013, 12:39 AM
I didn't want to say that he is off, I just wanted to say that this is not an adequate answer.
Well if someones going to assume they're a kiddo then it really wouldn't be to far off to use the same immaturity in the reply.
Personally I wouldn't give an educated reply to a sarcastic reply like that.
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Jinfengopteryx
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I would say in such a case it would be the best not to reply. Although I would try to justify myself.
Edited by Jinfengopteryx, Jun 25 2013, 12:45 AM.
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Bandog
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Everything else is just a dog.
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Jinfengopteryx
Jun 25 2013, 12:44 AM
I would say in such a case it would be the best not to reply. Although I would try to justify myself.
Ursus has dug through much info to provide at least enough data to allow opinions to be formed on the matter.
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k9boy
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Smaller dogs vs smaller cats is generally even, for example pitbulls beat bobcats whilst lynx beat collies. Pumas and leopards are too much for any similarly sized canid though.
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Ursus arctos
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Bandog
Jun 25 2013, 05:45 AM
Jinfengopteryx
Jun 25 2013, 12:44 AM
I would say in such a case it would be the best not to reply. Although I would try to justify myself.
Ursus has dug through much info to provide at least enough data to allow opinions to be formed on the matter.
The problem is I haven't posted (much) info yet!
Mostly just references, and occasionally listing numbers.




I'm redoing the work to make it easier to follow, and then intend to finally post it and let everyone see.


Anyway:
lozcat
 
In no way does It translate the dog wins in a fight.


I definitely agree.
I wouldn't necessarily make the connection that larger muscles -> advantage in a fight or ability to subdue larger prey with the limbs.


Based on recent evidence regarding power output of the cheetah, I would also suggest that-despite work and power being proportional to muscle mass-muscle mass is apparently not very strongly correlated with power output.
In greyhounds many of the most important muscles for running are much larger than they are for (captive) cheetahs, yet wild cheetahs could produce over twice the power relative to weight.

I wonder to what extant it is related to captive vs wild cheetahs?
The cheetahs were captive, albeit
in large enclosures enabling them the opportunity to run
but unlikely at high speeds, and had died of natural causes
and therefore some alterations in architecture associated
with lack of exercise must be assumed (Blazevich et al.
2003).
-Hudson, et al (2012), the article the cheetah muscle info came from.

...but I doubt wild cheetahs have larger muscles than the greyhounds. Let alone twice their size.

EDIT:
Felinepowah
 
But in the grand scheme of what kuri is talking about the dogs larger triceps ain't really gonna help.


In the grand scheme of what kuri was talking about:

so..why should a dog have bigger muscles, when it uses his muscles only for running?


What I said is exactly relevant. Not only the triceps (which are among the largest muscles in these quadrupeds) are large.
Forearm muscles are smaller in canids, however.

Decathlete vs marathon runner is also a poor example.

Marathon runners sustain low speeds, and require little acceleration - meaning little power is needed. This is not so with canids, which must attain high speeds. If their muscles are less powerful/muscle mass than those of felids, this would require greater mass.

In addition, animals living in more open environments have larger muscle mass/body mass. Highly arboreal animals are the least heavily muscled.
Clearly, the relationships between behaviour and morphology in animals are not as indicated by Kuri or Felinepowah.
Edited by Ursus arctos, Jun 25 2013, 07:04 AM.
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Vivec
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The most muscled cat (Jaguar) is more muscular than the current most muscular canid (Grey Wolf), but without adding on the extinct cats and canids, we can not make a good assumption on the matter. the individual animal counts more, therefore I will not call one family being significantly more powerful than the other.
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