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Felids vs Canids at parity, who's stronger?; Who's stronger and most capable in a fight at parity?
Topic Started: Jul 31 2012, 11:41 AM (44,664 Views)
Jinfengopteryx
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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FelinePowah
Jul 31 2012, 08:02 PM
Starkiller
Jul 31 2012, 07:58 PM
FelinePowah
Jul 31 2012, 07:57 PM
Starkiller
Jul 31 2012, 07:09 PM
From ursus data
"cursorial animals~those specified for running~are probably not weak compared to other animals
What they give up is flexibility
What does this mean for wrestling with the forelimbs?
Animals that use their limbs to wrestle are unlikely to have stronger limbs than strong but inflexible animals~likely making restraining difficult

Cats dont have stronger limbs only more developed ones

Im sorry but thats a load of crap, there is no way a wolf will have the same strength in its limbs as a puma.
READ THE FRIGGIN THREAD!!!! Im not saying it again
The cats limbs are more developed aka more robust
Read the damned thread also yoir calling ursus data crap?
Errrm dogs limbs are more robust becuase of them being runners, having robust limb bones helps with the constant pounding they get from running, but they sure as hell carry less muscle in there limbs then felines.

Lol what is Ursus the super poster lord and what ever he post is always right, his information is misleading.
Could you please say why EXACTLY he's off. He isn't the lord, but one of the most intelligent posters here, for sure.
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Bandog
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FelinePowah
Jul 31 2012, 09:52 PM
Amphicyon
Jul 31 2012, 09:50 PM
k9boy
Jul 31 2012, 09:44 PM
Amphicyon
Jul 31 2012, 09:38 PM
kuri
Jul 31 2012, 09:19 PM
Superpredator
Jul 31 2012, 08:22 PM
READ THE F**CKING THREAD, BEFORE YOU REPLY.
the paper you posted is nice, but far too theoretical.
It's a fact, canidae and felidae have a different muscle type.
Canidae..more endurance and felidae more explosion power.
And as i said before, no use for a movement means no muscles for this movement.

Some of what you are saying is correct, eg cougars forearm muscles as a result of gripping prey with rotatable wrists. Some is incorrect, dogs do actually jump. What I take from the muscle info thread with regards to cats v dogs is that at parity, the cat will be unable to subdue the dog completely with its arms.
Cats can subdue dogs with a combination of arm and body strength.
The muscle info thread indicates that at similar weights, this is incorrect.
The cats bulkier musculature is likely the result of the greater range of movement it's body allows. More muscles equals greater range of movement as opposed to greater strength.
What??? so a bodybuilder isnt stronger then a normal man he just has more movement!!! lol
Gymnastics require lots of movment and from all that movment comes lots of strength.

Are you drunk??
That would be like comparing a cougar to a cougar as opposed to a wolf and cougar now wouldn't it?
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FelinePowah
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Amphicyon
Jul 31 2012, 08:43 PM
FelinePowah
Jul 31 2012, 08:16 PM
Starkiller
Jul 31 2012, 08:08 PM
I keep fucking tellin him you cant judge strength by looking at the limb but hes to much of a damn catboy to get it through his dense head
So a wolf limbs are just as strong as a sun bears limbs......doh
So a Salukis limbs are just as strong as a clouded Leopards limbs

Really lol

So a Smilodon wasnt strong cus it was well muscled it was strong cus it was flexible, so it just looked muscular but really those muscles where just made of air!!!
Smilodon had larger bones to support its musculature. Looking at anatomical differences is a good way to see who would have an edge in strength, as opposed to appearances.
For example, at weight parity, a cougar would exert more force than a wolf in its limbs because it has shorter, more robust limbs.
And combined with the fact that the puma carries more muscle in its limbs then the wolf.
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k9boy
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Amphicyon
Jul 31 2012, 09:50 PM
The cats bulkier musculature is likely the result of the greater range of movement it's body allows. More muscles equals greater range of movement as opposed to greater strength.
I think it equals greater movement and strength.
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Bandog
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FelinePowah
Jul 31 2012, 10:00 PM
Amphicyon
Jul 31 2012, 08:43 PM
FelinePowah
Jul 31 2012, 08:16 PM
Starkiller
Jul 31 2012, 08:08 PM
I keep fucking tellin him you cant judge strength by looking at the limb but hes to much of a damn catboy to get it through his dense head
So a wolf limbs are just as strong as a sun bears limbs......doh
So a Salukis limbs are just as strong as a clouded Leopards limbs

Really lol

So a Smilodon wasnt strong cus it was well muscled it was strong cus it was flexible, so it just looked muscular but really those muscles where just made of air!!!
Smilodon had larger bones to support its musculature. Looking at anatomical differences is a good way to see who would have an edge in strength, as opposed to appearances.
For example, at weight parity, a cougar would exert more force than a wolf in its limbs because it has shorter, more robust limbs.
And combined with the fact that the puma carries more muscle in its limbs then the wolf.
Yes, to support its greater range of movement.
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FelinePowah
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Amphicyon
Jul 31 2012, 09:57 PM
FelinePowah
Jul 31 2012, 09:52 PM
Amphicyon
Jul 31 2012, 09:50 PM
k9boy
Jul 31 2012, 09:44 PM
Amphicyon
Jul 31 2012, 09:38 PM
kuri
Jul 31 2012, 09:19 PM
Superpredator
Jul 31 2012, 08:22 PM
READ THE F**CKING THREAD, BEFORE YOU REPLY.
the paper you posted is nice, but far too theoretical.
It's a fact, canidae and felidae have a different muscle type.
Canidae..more endurance and felidae more explosion power.
And as i said before, no use for a movement means no muscles for this movement.

Some of what you are saying is correct, eg cougars forearm muscles as a result of gripping prey with rotatable wrists. Some is incorrect, dogs do actually jump. What I take from the muscle info thread with regards to cats v dogs is that at parity, the cat will be unable to subdue the dog completely with its arms.
Cats can subdue dogs with a combination of arm and body strength.
The muscle info thread indicates that at similar weights, this is incorrect.
The cats bulkier musculature is likely the result of the greater range of movement it's body allows. More muscles equals greater range of movement as opposed to greater strength.
What??? so a bodybuilder isnt stronger then a normal man he just has more movement!!! lol
Gymnastics require lots of movment and from all that movment comes lots of strength.

Are you drunk??
That would be like comparing a cougar to a cougar as opposed to a wolf and cougar now wouldn't it?
But its not movment that makes a cat more muscular, its its life style, movment being one part of that, pumas are muscular cats its simple, they could not perform there hunting feats if they wasnt as strong as they are, wolves dont need to be as strong as a puma and they are not as strong as a puma, there lifstyle doesnt demand it
Dogs havent got thick muscled limbs, but they do have robust limb bones.
Edited by FelinePowah, Jul 31 2012, 10:07 PM.
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FelinePowah
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Amphicyon
Jul 31 2012, 10:01 PM
FelinePowah
Jul 31 2012, 10:00 PM
Amphicyon
Jul 31 2012, 08:43 PM
FelinePowah
Jul 31 2012, 08:16 PM
Starkiller
Jul 31 2012, 08:08 PM
I keep fucking tellin him you cant judge strength by looking at the limb but hes to much of a damn catboy to get it through his dense head
So a wolf limbs are just as strong as a sun bears limbs......doh
So a Salukis limbs are just as strong as a clouded Leopards limbs

Really lol

So a Smilodon wasnt strong cus it was well muscled it was strong cus it was flexible, so it just looked muscular but really those muscles where just made of air!!!
Smilodon had larger bones to support its musculature. Looking at anatomical differences is a good way to see who would have an edge in strength, as opposed to appearances.
For example, at weight parity, a cougar would exert more force than a wolf in its limbs because it has shorter, more robust limbs.
And combined with the fact that the puma carries more muscle in its limbs then the wolf.
Yes, to support its greater range of movement.
No its to help it wrestle large animals to the floor.
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Bandog
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k9boy
Jul 31 2012, 10:01 PM
Amphicyon
Jul 31 2012, 09:50 PM
The cats bulkier musculature is likely the result of the greater range of movement it's body allows. More muscles equals greater range of movement as opposed to greater strength.
I think it equals greater movement and strength.
Well with the movements the cat performs but the dog cannot, certainly.
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Bandog
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FelinePowah
Jul 31 2012, 10:06 PM
Amphicyon
Jul 31 2012, 10:01 PM
FelinePowah
Jul 31 2012, 10:00 PM
Amphicyon
Jul 31 2012, 08:43 PM
FelinePowah
Jul 31 2012, 08:16 PM
Starkiller
Jul 31 2012, 08:08 PM
I keep fucking tellin him you cant judge strength by looking at the limb but hes to much of a damn catboy to get it through his dense head
So a wolf limbs are just as strong as a sun bears limbs......doh
So a Salukis limbs are just as strong as a clouded Leopards limbs

Really lol

So a Smilodon wasnt strong cus it was well muscled it was strong cus it was flexible, so it just looked muscular but really those muscles where just made of air!!!
Smilodon had larger bones to support its musculature. Looking at anatomical differences is a good way to see who would have an edge in strength, as opposed to appearances.
For example, at weight parity, a cougar would exert more force than a wolf in its limbs because it has shorter, more robust limbs.
And combined with the fact that the puma carries more muscle in its limbs then the wolf.
Yes, to support its greater range of movement.
No its to help it wrestle large animals to the floor.
So by that logic you would assume dogs have greater head and neck strength, due to the more labored job they have in the hunting process?
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k9boy
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Amphicyon
Jul 31 2012, 10:01 PM
Yes, to support its greater range of movement.
And as a bonus gives it greater strength.
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k9boy
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Amphicyon
Jul 31 2012, 10:08 PM
So by that logic you would assume dogs have greater head and neck strength, due to the more labored job they have in the hunting process?
Yes, a wolf probably has a stronger neck and certainly has stronger jaws then a similarly sized cougar. Though I think leopards have stronger necks then wolves
Edited by k9boy, Jul 31 2012, 10:14 PM.
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Bandog
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FelinePowah
Jul 31 2012, 10:05 PM
Amphicyon
Jul 31 2012, 09:57 PM
FelinePowah
Jul 31 2012, 09:52 PM
Amphicyon
Jul 31 2012, 09:50 PM
k9boy
Jul 31 2012, 09:44 PM
Amphicyon
Jul 31 2012, 09:38 PM
kuri
Jul 31 2012, 09:19 PM
Superpredator
Jul 31 2012, 08:22 PM
READ THE F**CKING THREAD, BEFORE YOU REPLY.
the paper you posted is nice, but far too theoretical.
It's a fact, canidae and felidae have a different muscle type.
Canidae..more endurance and felidae more explosion power.
And as i said before, no use for a movement means no muscles for this movement.

Some of what you are saying is correct, eg cougars forearm muscles as a result of gripping prey with rotatable wrists. Some is incorrect, dogs do actually jump. What I take from the muscle info thread with regards to cats v dogs is that at parity, the cat will be unable to subdue the dog completely with its arms.
Cats can subdue dogs with a combination of arm and body strength.
The muscle info thread indicates that at similar weights, this is incorrect.
The cats bulkier musculature is likely the result of the greater range of movement it's body allows. More muscles equals greater range of movement as opposed to greater strength.
What??? so a bodybuilder isnt stronger then a normal man he just has more movement!!! lol
Gymnastics require lots of movment and from all that movment comes lots of strength.

Are you drunk??
That would be like comparing a cougar to a cougar as opposed to a wolf and cougar now wouldn't it?
But its not movment that makes a cat more muscular, its its life style, movment being one part of that, pumas are muscular cats its simple, they could not perform there hunting feats if they wasnt as strong as they are, wolves dont need to be as strong as a puma and they are not as strong as a puma, there lifstyle doesnt demand it
Dogs havent got thick muscled limbs, but they do have robust limb bones.
It's not the movement that makes the cat more muscular, it is the range of movement, the cougar needs to use its rotatable wrists in the hunting process, hence it's muscular forearms. It doesn't make the animal stronger, it makes it more capable at using its limbs in the hunting process.
Its the range of movement that the cougar must support that makes it more muscular.
What I'm getting at is, the cougar doesn't need more strength than the wolf for hunting, it needs a greater range of movement.
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FelinePowah
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Amphicyon
Jul 31 2012, 10:08 PM
FelinePowah
Jul 31 2012, 10:06 PM
Amphicyon
Jul 31 2012, 10:01 PM
FelinePowah
Jul 31 2012, 10:00 PM
Amphicyon
Jul 31 2012, 08:43 PM
FelinePowah
Jul 31 2012, 08:16 PM
Starkiller
Jul 31 2012, 08:08 PM
I keep fucking tellin him you cant judge strength by looking at the limb but hes to much of a damn catboy to get it through his dense head
So a wolf limbs are just as strong as a sun bears limbs......doh
So a Salukis limbs are just as strong as a clouded Leopards limbs

Really lol

So a Smilodon wasnt strong cus it was well muscled it was strong cus it was flexible, so it just looked muscular but really those muscles where just made of air!!!
Smilodon had larger bones to support its musculature. Looking at anatomical differences is a good way to see who would have an edge in strength, as opposed to appearances.
For example, at weight parity, a cougar would exert more force than a wolf in its limbs because it has shorter, more robust limbs.
And combined with the fact that the puma carries more muscle in its limbs then the wolf.
Yes, to support its greater range of movement.
No its to help it wrestle large animals to the floor.
So by that logic you would assume dogs have greater head and neck strength, due to the more labored job they have in the hunting process?
Hmmm i dont think you need a super strong neck to deliver slashing bites, the dogs jaws are very effective at doing that, im sure dogs have strong necks, but on average feline necks are shorter so are normaly stronger and help them deliver deep Puncturing bites.
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FelinePowah
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Amphicyon
Jul 31 2012, 10:12 PM
FelinePowah
Jul 31 2012, 10:05 PM
Amphicyon
Jul 31 2012, 09:57 PM
FelinePowah
Jul 31 2012, 09:52 PM
Amphicyon
Jul 31 2012, 09:50 PM
k9boy
Jul 31 2012, 09:44 PM
Amphicyon
Jul 31 2012, 09:38 PM
kuri
Jul 31 2012, 09:19 PM
Superpredator
Jul 31 2012, 08:22 PM
READ THE F**CKING THREAD, BEFORE YOU REPLY.
the paper you posted is nice, but far too theoretical.
It's a fact, canidae and felidae have a different muscle type.
Canidae..more endurance and felidae more explosion power.
And as i said before, no use for a movement means no muscles for this movement.

Some of what you are saying is correct, eg cougars forearm muscles as a result of gripping prey with rotatable wrists. Some is incorrect, dogs do actually jump. What I take from the muscle info thread with regards to cats v dogs is that at parity, the cat will be unable to subdue the dog completely with its arms.
Cats can subdue dogs with a combination of arm and body strength.
The muscle info thread indicates that at similar weights, this is incorrect.
The cats bulkier musculature is likely the result of the greater range of movement it's body allows. More muscles equals greater range of movement as opposed to greater strength.
What??? so a bodybuilder isnt stronger then a normal man he just has more movement!!! lol
Gymnastics require lots of movment and from all that movment comes lots of strength.

Are you drunk??
That would be like comparing a cougar to a cougar as opposed to a wolf and cougar now wouldn't it?
But its not movment that makes a cat more muscular, its its life style, movment being one part of that, pumas are muscular cats its simple, they could not perform there hunting feats if they wasnt as strong as they are, wolves dont need to be as strong as a puma and they are not as strong as a puma, there lifstyle doesnt demand it
Dogs havent got thick muscled limbs, but they do have robust limb bones.
It's not the movement that makes the cat more muscular, it is the range of movement, the cougar needs to use its rotatable wrists in the hunting process, hence it's muscular forearms. It doesn't make the animal stronger, it makes it more capable at using its limbs in the hunting process.
Its the range of movement that the cougar must support that makes it more muscular.
What I'm getting at is, the cougar doesn't need more strength than the wolf for hunting, it needs a greater range of movement.
But you dont need to be muscular to be flexible, but you need to be muscular if your going to be wrestling with an adult Elk.
A female puma is just as flexible as a far more muscled male puma yet she carries less muscle.
Edited by FelinePowah, Jul 31 2012, 10:21 PM.
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k9boy
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FelinePowah
Jul 31 2012, 10:14 PM
im sure dogs have strong necks, but on average feline necks are shorter so are normaly stronger and help them deliver deep Puncturing bites.
Depends completley of the species. A jack russell will have a stronger neck at parity then a similarly sized cat, And a leopard will have a stronger neck then a similarly sized dog/wolf.
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