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Felids vs Canids at parity, who's stronger?; Who's stronger and most capable in a fight at parity?
Topic Started: Jul 31 2012, 11:41 AM (44,659 Views)
k9boy
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Apex Predator
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FelinePowah
Aug 1 2012, 04:22 PM
poison
Aug 1 2012, 10:45 AM

Cant really believe anything on that forum as its so full of cat hate.

Hawks are just not strong enough to be able to take out a cat with taking incoming damage and getting killed or injured.
So unless the hawk can kill the cat in the first hit its gonna get clawed and bitten and killed if left with the cat.
They hate cats because they attack there birds lol And poison foxes in the uk are alot bigger then a feral cat, And I'm not biased at all, I just think that a 2lb hawk is not gonna kill a cat face to face. If anything your biased, making up bollocks that a rottweiler was killed by a fisher.

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Jinfengopteryx
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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Amphicyon
Aug 1 2012, 07:23 AM
Jinfengopteryx
Aug 1 2012, 07:21 AM
Amphicyon
Aug 1 2012, 06:43 AM
Jinfengopteryx
Aug 1 2012, 06:35 AM
Amphicyon
Aug 1 2012, 06:29 AM
FelinePowah
Jul 31 2012, 11:05 PM
Jinfengopteryx
Jul 31 2012, 10:54 PM
FelinePowah
Jul 31 2012, 10:46 PM
k9boy
Jul 31 2012, 10:43 PM
poison
Jul 31 2012, 10:39 PM
felines are stronger than canines but they will be killed by the weasel family at equal weights, I dont think a cl is the king of its weight a wolverine or badger the same weight will kill it.
No way, A CL or pitbull would total a badger at equal weights, a wolverine would be slightly harder but it would still lose to both of them.
Naa i think a Wolverine would kill a Pitbull at equal weights.

Dogs are just badly designed for fighting.
They aren't bad designed for fighting, they're simply well adapted for pack hunting, also Wolverines are very tough and durable animals.
Well they are, all the top animal fighters have mobile limbs which can be used in a fight, felines,bears,Mustelidae, dogs sadly come bottom of the list.
That's a load of crap and isnt supported by anything
Eg bobcat coyote
Hyena leopard
Etc etc.
I think a Hyena will loose to a Leopard. Leopards usually flee, because they are solitary animals and unlike the hyena, nobody will help it, if it get's injured.

In a life to death battle, the Leopard has the edge.
There are no reliable accounts of either species killing prime adults. Hyenas have tough competition at kills, if it is unable to muscle its way in it will starve, just as a leopard. I too would favor a leopard but it is an impressive species of cat. There are many less impressive species. Though as a general trend, efficient grapplers are good fighters.
We don't have accounts of them killing each other, it's a suggestion, based on looking at the weaponary. The Leopard has the ability to jumb, grapple and it's more independent. Also Hyenas are no canids, they are more related to cats.
Hyenas and canids are a rather closely related as far as their strength and weaknesses are concerned.
Hyenas are also more than capable of jumping.
Still, we don't have evidence of Hyenas killing Leopards, so we can only speculate.
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k9boy
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From the falconryforum..

"My male goshawk was raised with a cat in the same room every day. She slept on my bed with him. He played with kittens in the yard and for the number of cats that come here I have not had to worry about any of them until one day he murdered one of his little playmates. He ate most of her too. Then he murdered another one. I had to make certain he could not get hold of them again. Then we started hunting, and the first season with him he caught and killed 2 half grown cats while out in the fields hunting. Then last season, the very first day out of the mews we went hunting, and he chased and caught a huge grey tomcat. By the time I got there he had been terribly wounded. The cat escaped, but I had to get my goshawk to a vet. The vet told me that the best thing I could do was to have the hawk put down. The enjuries were horrific. Most of the leg muscles of the right leg were completely missing, having been torn out by the cats hind feet in the fight. His abdomin was also torn open and his innards were torn. An infection had already taken hold and even if he had survived, which was not very probable, he would go through a terrible ordeal."

"I had female gos killed by cat. She followed on and suddenly she flew far and over the hill. When I got there she was dying and the cat was in bad stage as well....I killed the cat and carried my female back home but she didn't make it ...i Know that you might argue that the goshawk chose to catch the cat....

...Also in New Zealand a cat killed our first released female...and I was working on Hutton's shearwater and one year 10 out of 40 were killed by cat...sorry Sara but I hate them!!!!"





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Cat
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poison
Aug 1 2012, 07:48 AM
oh yeah people are going to make up stuff on various forums in regard to prey base taken by their raptors all over the world just for fun lol thats the most stupid thing i have ever heard

They actually have a lot of threads deleted because of it because raptors being a danger to cats and dogs gives falconry a bad name so mods make people shut up about it

They arent pet cats they are feral they are not allowed to hunt around houses near kids specially with large owls or eagles. The only time pet cats are killed is if the falconer lives with one and vice versa.


Falconers dont consider taking a cat by a hawk as anything special taking a fox by a hawk to them is something huge though. Taking an fox with an owl is pretty normal.

Just kinda shows us feral cats and foxes are close to the same size but the fox is seen as something serious and worth writing about while a feral cat is nothing huge to write about to them.

Feral cats are often in por conditions. Still, I have to see detailed and reliable statistics. And yes, posters in such kind of forums aren't often that concerned about objectivity when their favo animal is concerned - especially when they are the owners of those animals. I'm not saying that they are a bunch of liars but unsupported and unconfirmed statements from fans and owners should be taken with a grain of salt. Would you accept all the statements made in a cat fan forum? Besides, the surprise factor here is key, and if a raptor dives on an unsuspecting animals that's not a fair fight, no more than a tiger taking a bear by surprise from behind is a fair fight.
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Ophiophagy
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on the birdforum which is a bird watching forum many people have whitnessed red tails take adult cats as well

the cat doesnt always die with the hard impact and puts up a fight, it can turn the tables though not saying it cant. But the hawks seem to usually win.


Yes k9 i am sorry the fisher killed the the rotty here that attacked it, we have proof the fisher killed the rotty in our city but we have no proof fishers have killed cats. DNA tests show us fishers have not killed any cats here only the stupid dog that attacked it. lol i am sorry you cant accept this k9 lol
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Cat
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Just the opinion of a poster from another forum:

I've just spent the last six months after losing my cats and moving from the city to the high desert mountains. A neighbor has stray cats crossing his property as well as kittens and the three, large, red tail Hawks that live in a big tree above the property NEVER take anything larger than mice. Not even small rabbits. I even helped one that got hit off the highway and it was as light as it was large.
So, the whole hawk hunts cat thing is complete bunk.

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Ophiophagy
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yeah it does not happen often red tails are in my trees in my yard all the time and my cat is back there 24/7. When it happens its an act of desperation OR a mistake.


in nature hawks,

weasel, snakes, small tiny raptors, possems

standard hawks, feral cats, foxes, coons skunks all on the same level

owls, fishers, bobcats are higher rank predators

eagles coyotes are the higher

wolves and cougars and bars are the highest rank predators

Falconry birds are brazen and dont have the survival skils of wild birds and will take on anything such as eagles hunting wolves. But on bird forum those geeks are out there all their life so they see rare things like this happen.
Edited by Ophiophagy, Aug 2 2012, 12:06 AM.
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tyrannotitan
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Canids stand no chance against felids.
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Black Ice
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There really is no point in trying to explain mechanics to cat fans like felinepowah and ^ because if you say cats arent anything but amazing and invincible
They(felinepowah) block out logic with bias
Catfans just let the cat catch their toingue(i was gonna say something far worse) yet I dont want to here cat fans throw a fit
Edited by Black Ice, Aug 2 2012, 10:41 AM.
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Bandog
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Everything else is just a dog.
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I'm biased towards dogs but I still think that at parity cats>dogs
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Black Ice
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Dogs>small cats except cl
Big cats>any dog
Yet some dont want to believe that
Edited by Black Ice, Aug 2 2012, 10:54 AM.
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Bandog
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Everything else is just a dog.
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Starkiller
Aug 2 2012, 10:53 AM
Dogs>small cats except cl
Big cats>any dog
Yet some dont want to believe that
If you were to generalise all species excluding weight it's still cats>dogs. I love my dogs but they have a lot to overcome against cats. That's why I only support dogs with a weight advantage eg cl vs pitbull.
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Black Ice
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Im refering to the small cats in general
Cl cougar and pantherines are exempted
Have you seen red foxes fight housecats? They look evenly matched the whole time
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Bandog
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Everything else is just a dog.
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Starkiller
Aug 2 2012, 11:04 AM
Im refering to the small cats in general
Cl cougar and pantherines are exempted
Have you seen red foxes fight housecats? They look evenly matched the whole time
Well foxes kill cats in my neighborhood. I'm sorry but I'm drunk but still. Any cat worth calling a cat will beat a canid at parity. Kills me to say it but it's stupid to deny it.
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Black Ice
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So a bobcat will kill a coyote
A serval will kill a fox etc
Those are all cats even taipan said he doubts a caracal bobcat etc will be able to overpower coyotes etc
Small cats dont have the overwhelming robusticity to overpower a dog. The cl is the exception
I really couldnt care less if people think all cats are leagues above dogs.
What im still not getting is why dogs lost their ability to grapple with the forelimbs though.
Edited by Black Ice, Aug 2 2012, 11:13 AM.
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