Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Carnivora. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Centipede/spider/mantis/scorpion
Topic Started: Aug 18 2012, 08:59 AM (44,189 Views)
Wild
Member Avatar
Apex Predator
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 09:59 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 09:45 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 09:36 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 09:34 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 07:18 AM
I showed the same thing, just scaled up versions.
Remember spiders are mostly legs and hair.
remember an average tarantula weighs around 40-100 grams while even the largest species of mantis top it off at 20 grams
Well then it looks like we cant debate this then.
oh yes we can, I have another amazing parity fight:



A tiny mantis fends off a barn funnel weaver, even when caught in the spiders' web the mantis viciously defends itself and gives the spider quite the beating tearing off one of it's limbs and sending it running
What happened to web spiders being weak now?
Your contradicting yourself trying to prove mantis superiority. House centipedes break free from webs for christ sake.
Thats not even a fight, thats a failed hunting attempt.
I'm not contradicting myself I'm using your logic against you, according to what u think web spiders are among the most superior arthropod predators so why did this one have so much trouble taking a tiny mantis?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Black Ice
Member Avatar
Drom King
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 10:03 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 09:59 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 09:45 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 09:36 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 09:34 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 07:18 AM
I showed the same thing, just scaled up versions.
Remember spiders are mostly legs and hair.
remember an average tarantula weighs around 40-100 grams while even the largest species of mantis top it off at 20 grams
Well then it looks like we cant debate this then.
oh yes we can, I have another amazing parity fight:



A tiny mantis fends off a barn funnel weaver, even when caught in the spiders' web the mantis viciously defends itself and gives the spider quite the beating tearing off one of it's limbs and sending it running
What happened to web spiders being weak now?
Your contradicting yourself trying to prove mantis superiority. House centipedes break free from webs for christ sake.
Thats not even a fight, thats a failed hunting attempt.
I'm not contradicting myself I'm using your logic against you, according to what u think web spiders are among the most superior arthropod predators so why did this one have so much trouble taking a tiny mantis?
yea i said web spiders beat mantis. But since they fail at taking a mantis every blue moon they must suck right?
I said in hunting.
But hey crocs fail at killing wildebeest every while. I guess they are terrible hunters.
Or cheetah and impala.
Or how about mantis and hornets? rolleyes
Edited by Black Ice, Oct 18 2012, 10:09 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Wild
Member Avatar
Apex Predator
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 09:57 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 09:40 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 07:23 AM
I just read your entire post and no. Thats not proof of how a proper fight would.
In order to prove your point you must post multiple examples to rule out the flukes and lucky shots.
You just show one video and then say thats how a fight will happen when in reality that could have been a fluke. So no you just showed a mantis has the capacity to restrain a spider, not kill it. They just grab and start eating as they have no effecient way of killing their prey.
Seriously how do you expect a mantis to kill a centipede or spider as quickly as vice versa?
And your the mantis slipped is a poor excuse as the spider was also slipping and falling as well. But in the end the fight was a stalemate as the spider broke free.
mantis' don't just eat their prey alive, their's evidence of them spearing hummingbirds with their raptorial front legs.

Mantis don't kill quickly, that's the genius of their design, their forearms are perfect for holding large struggling prey and their mouth parts work quickly picking away at meat, fur, feathers, and exoskeleton like scalpels. and no the spider wasn't slipping it wasn't even on it's feet, it was on it's back all it had to do was roll over and use it's body as a counter weight, the mantis unable to keep a grip on the flat slippery terrain couldn't support itself as the spider rolled over
The spider was slipping, a dead give away was when it fell bring the mantis on its side.
No excuse there.
Also thats also their flaw when facing spiders.
Its two long limbs vs 8 coupled with impressive fangs, the spider if a robust species could use all its limbs as hands and manipulate the mantis as i showed in my video.
Its easy to spear a animal thats unaware or ambushed, not so much with a spider.
No the spider's limbs were clearly preoccupied wrapping aorund the mantis so it wasn't trying to get up it was trying to flip over, if it was trying to flip over it's legs would be sprawling everywhere looking for a grip. Also the last two legs on each side of the spider are used for standing and moving it can't manipulate all it's legs or else it'll be rendered immobile and if it tries to use the engulfing technique it'll be easily grabbed and stopped before it can finish it's move. The praying mantis just has to secure the first two legs that guide the spider's fangs to it's victim. Also eating off a leg would severely weaken the spider becuase of the way the blood system is designed.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Wild
Member Avatar
Apex Predator
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 10:04 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 10:03 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 09:59 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 09:45 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 09:36 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 09:34 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 07:18 AM
I showed the same thing, just scaled up versions.
Remember spiders are mostly legs and hair.
remember an average tarantula weighs around 40-100 grams while even the largest species of mantis top it off at 20 grams
Well then it looks like we cant debate this then.
oh yes we can, I have another amazing parity fight:



A tiny mantis fends off a barn funnel weaver, even when caught in the spiders' web the mantis viciously defends itself and gives the spider quite the beating tearing off one of it's limbs and sending it running
What happened to web spiders being weak now?
Your contradicting yourself trying to prove mantis superiority. House centipedes break free from webs for christ sake.
Thats not even a fight, thats a failed hunting attempt.
I'm not contradicting myself I'm using your logic against you, according to what u think web spiders are among the most superior arthropod predators so why did this one have so much trouble taking a tiny mantis?
lol quote when i said web spiders beat mantis in fighting.
I said in hunting.
But hey crocs fail at killing wildebeest every while. I guess they are terrible hunters.
Or cheetah and impala.
Or how about mantis and hornets? rolleyes
yeah but since when do baby wildebeest beat the heck out of crocs and send them home with a missing leg? Also mantis prey on hornets just like vice versa
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Black Ice
Member Avatar
Drom King
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 10:08 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 09:57 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 09:40 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 07:23 AM
I just read your entire post and no. Thats not proof of how a proper fight would.
In order to prove your point you must post multiple examples to rule out the flukes and lucky shots.
You just show one video and then say thats how a fight will happen when in reality that could have been a fluke. So no you just showed a mantis has the capacity to restrain a spider, not kill it. They just grab and start eating as they have no effecient way of killing their prey.
Seriously how do you expect a mantis to kill a centipede or spider as quickly as vice versa?
And your the mantis slipped is a poor excuse as the spider was also slipping and falling as well. But in the end the fight was a stalemate as the spider broke free.
mantis' don't just eat their prey alive, their's evidence of them spearing hummingbirds with their raptorial front legs.

Mantis don't kill quickly, that's the genius of their design, their forearms are perfect for holding large struggling prey and their mouth parts work quickly picking away at meat, fur, feathers, and exoskeleton like scalpels. and no the spider wasn't slipping it wasn't even on it's feet, it was on it's back all it had to do was roll over and use it's body as a counter weight, the mantis unable to keep a grip on the flat slippery terrain couldn't support itself as the spider rolled over
The spider was slipping, a dead give away was when it fell bring the mantis on its side.
No excuse there.
Also thats also their flaw when facing spiders.
Its two long limbs vs 8 coupled with impressive fangs, the spider if a robust species could use all its limbs as hands and manipulate the mantis as i showed in my video.
Its easy to spear a animal thats unaware or ambushed, not so much with a spider.
No the spider's limbs were clearly preoccupied wrapping aorund the mantis so it wasn't trying to get up it was trying to flip over, if it was trying to flip over it's legs would be sprawling everywhere looking for a grip. Also the last two legs on each side of the spider are used for standing and moving it can't manipulate all it's legs or else it'll be rendered immobile and if it tries to use the engulfing technique it'll be easily grabbed and stopped before it can finish it's move. The praying mantis just has to secure the first two legs that guide the spider's fangs to it's victim. Also eating off a leg would severely weaken the spider becuase of the way the blood system is designed.
So a mantis can slip..... But a spider cant?
No matter what you say your video clearly showed the spider slipped and wounded up on its backside. But even there its fangs were nearly touching the mantis head. Whats your excuse?
You said the plastic was slippery so why should the mantis get the slipping excuse when its legs work just like a spiders?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Black Ice
Member Avatar
Drom King
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 10:09 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 10:04 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 10:03 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 09:59 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 09:45 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 09:36 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 09:34 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 07:18 AM
I showed the same thing, just scaled up versions.
Remember spiders are mostly legs and hair.
remember an average tarantula weighs around 40-100 grams while even the largest species of mantis top it off at 20 grams
Well then it looks like we cant debate this then.
oh yes we can, I have another amazing parity fight:



A tiny mantis fends off a barn funnel weaver, even when caught in the spiders' web the mantis viciously defends itself and gives the spider quite the beating tearing off one of it's limbs and sending it running
What happened to web spiders being weak now?
Your contradicting yourself trying to prove mantis superiority. House centipedes break free from webs for christ sake.
Thats not even a fight, thats a failed hunting attempt.
I'm not contradicting myself I'm using your logic against you, according to what u think web spiders are among the most superior arthropod predators so why did this one have so much trouble taking a tiny mantis?
lol quote when i said web spiders beat mantis in fighting.
I said in hunting.
But hey crocs fail at killing wildebeest every while. I guess they are terrible hunters.
Or cheetah and impala.
Or how about mantis and hornets? rolleyes
yeah but since when do baby wildebeest beat the heck out of crocs and send them home with a missing leg? Also mantis prey on hornets just like vice versa
That wasnt a baby mantis.
Yea but apparently mantis take hyperactive humming birds thus make them do better than pedes taking bats.
Yet majority of the time they fail at killing smaller hornets.
I smell contradiction.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Wild
Member Avatar
Apex Predator
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 10:11 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 10:08 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 09:57 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 09:40 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 07:23 AM
I just read your entire post and no. Thats not proof of how a proper fight would.
In order to prove your point you must post multiple examples to rule out the flukes and lucky shots.
You just show one video and then say thats how a fight will happen when in reality that could have been a fluke. So no you just showed a mantis has the capacity to restrain a spider, not kill it. They just grab and start eating as they have no effecient way of killing their prey.
Seriously how do you expect a mantis to kill a centipede or spider as quickly as vice versa?
And your the mantis slipped is a poor excuse as the spider was also slipping and falling as well. But in the end the fight was a stalemate as the spider broke free.
mantis' don't just eat their prey alive, their's evidence of them spearing hummingbirds with their raptorial front legs.

Mantis don't kill quickly, that's the genius of their design, their forearms are perfect for holding large struggling prey and their mouth parts work quickly picking away at meat, fur, feathers, and exoskeleton like scalpels. and no the spider wasn't slipping it wasn't even on it's feet, it was on it's back all it had to do was roll over and use it's body as a counter weight, the mantis unable to keep a grip on the flat slippery terrain couldn't support itself as the spider rolled over
The spider was slipping, a dead give away was when it fell bring the mantis on its side.
No excuse there.
Also thats also their flaw when facing spiders.
Its two long limbs vs 8 coupled with impressive fangs, the spider if a robust species could use all its limbs as hands and manipulate the mantis as i showed in my video.
Its easy to spear a animal thats unaware or ambushed, not so much with a spider.
No the spider's limbs were clearly preoccupied wrapping aorund the mantis so it wasn't trying to get up it was trying to flip over, if it was trying to flip over it's legs would be sprawling everywhere looking for a grip. Also the last two legs on each side of the spider are used for standing and moving it can't manipulate all it's legs or else it'll be rendered immobile and if it tries to use the engulfing technique it'll be easily grabbed and stopped before it can finish it's move. The praying mantis just has to secure the first two legs that guide the spider's fangs to it's victim. Also eating off a leg would severely weaken the spider becuase of the way the blood system is designed.
So a mantis can slip..... But a spider cant?
No matter what you say your video clearly showed the spider slipped and wounded up on its backside. But even there its fangs were nearly touching the mantis head. Whats your excuse?
You said the plastic was slippery so why should the mantis get the slipping excuse when its legs work just like a spiders?
ok I guess the fight wasn't the best to use still the spider has 8 legs to balance on the mantis had 4
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Black Ice
Member Avatar
Drom King
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
When fighting they use the front four for manipulation and the back for balance.... At least for tarantulas.
Dont get me wrong tho im not trying to downgrade mantis and if i am i apologize.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Wild
Member Avatar
Apex Predator
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 10:13 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 10:09 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 10:04 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 10:03 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 09:59 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 09:45 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 09:36 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 09:34 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 07:18 AM
I showed the same thing, just scaled up versions.
Remember spiders are mostly legs and hair.
remember an average tarantula weighs around 40-100 grams while even the largest species of mantis top it off at 20 grams
Well then it looks like we cant debate this then.
oh yes we can, I have another amazing parity fight:



A tiny mantis fends off a barn funnel weaver, even when caught in the spiders' web the mantis viciously defends itself and gives the spider quite the beating tearing off one of it's limbs and sending it running
What happened to web spiders being weak now?
Your contradicting yourself trying to prove mantis superiority. House centipedes break free from webs for christ sake.
Thats not even a fight, thats a failed hunting attempt.
I'm not contradicting myself I'm using your logic against you, according to what u think web spiders are among the most superior arthropod predators so why did this one have so much trouble taking a tiny mantis?
lol quote when i said web spiders beat mantis in fighting.
I said in hunting.
But hey crocs fail at killing wildebeest every while. I guess they are terrible hunters.
Or cheetah and impala.
Or how about mantis and hornets? rolleyes
yeah but since when do baby wildebeest beat the heck out of crocs and send them home with a missing leg? Also mantis prey on hornets just like vice versa
That wasnt a baby mantis.
Yea but apparently mantis take hyperactive humming birds thus make them do better than pedes taking bats.
Yet majority of the time they fail at killing smaller hornets.
I smell contradiction.
I took back by hyperactive argument becuase it was baseless. Also mantis take birds three times their size centipedes take tiny nectar sipping bats that are paper light so don't start with me.

Mantis do sometimes successfully kill hornets but when they do fail it's becuase of the hornet's flight adavantage and that it's size means there's little to hold onto to help restrain the stinger
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Wild
Member Avatar
Apex Predator
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 10:17 AM
When fighting they use the front four for manipulation and the back for balance.... At least for tarantulas.
Dont get me wrong tho im not trying to downgrade mantis and if i am i apologize.
It's ok, still it doesn't seem that effective, an emperor scorpion killed a tarantula and only had to hold the first two legs
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Black Ice
Member Avatar
Drom King
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 10:21 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 10:13 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 10:09 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 10:04 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 10:03 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 09:59 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 09:45 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 09:36 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 09:34 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 07:18 AM
I showed the same thing, just scaled up versions.
Remember spiders are mostly legs and hair.
remember an average tarantula weighs around 40-100 grams while even the largest species of mantis top it off at 20 grams
Well then it looks like we cant debate this then.
oh yes we can, I have another amazing parity fight:



A tiny mantis fends off a barn funnel weaver, even when caught in the spiders' web the mantis viciously defends itself and gives the spider quite the beating tearing off one of it's limbs and sending it running
What happened to web spiders being weak now?
Your contradicting yourself trying to prove mantis superiority. House centipedes break free from webs for christ sake.
Thats not even a fight, thats a failed hunting attempt.
I'm not contradicting myself I'm using your logic against you, according to what u think web spiders are among the most superior arthropod predators so why did this one have so much trouble taking a tiny mantis?
lol quote when i said web spiders beat mantis in fighting.
I said in hunting.
But hey crocs fail at killing wildebeest every while. I guess they are terrible hunters.
Or cheetah and impala.
Or how about mantis and hornets? rolleyes
yeah but since when do baby wildebeest beat the heck out of crocs and send them home with a missing leg? Also mantis prey on hornets just like vice versa
That wasnt a baby mantis.
Yea but apparently mantis take hyperactive humming birds thus make them do better than pedes taking bats.
Yet majority of the time they fail at killing smaller hornets.
I smell contradiction.
I took back by hyperactive argument becuase it was baseless. Also mantis take birds three times their size centipedes take tiny nectar sipping bats that are paper light so don't start with me.

Mantis do sometimes successfully kill hornets but when they do fail it's becuase of the hornet's flight adavantage and that it's size means there's little to hold onto to help restrain the stinger
Centipedes take snakes spider scorpions rats etc
Give a pede the oppurtunity they will kill a bird too.
You make it seem mantis are the only ones that do that.
And by three times their size thats still paper light so dont start with me either.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Black Ice
Member Avatar
Drom King
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 10:22 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 10:17 AM
When fighting they use the front four for manipulation and the back for balance.... At least for tarantulas.
Dont get me wrong tho im not trying to downgrade mantis and if i am i apologize.
It's ok, still it doesn't seem that effective, an emperor scorpion killed a tarantula and only had to hold the first two legs
There was an old korean vid of a spider trashing a scorp like the hood of a car.
Im about to net surf and find it.
Edited by Black Ice, Oct 18 2012, 10:26 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Wild
Member Avatar
Apex Predator
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 10:25 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 10:21 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 10:13 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 10:09 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 10:04 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 10:03 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 09:59 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 09:45 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 09:36 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 09:34 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 07:18 AM
I showed the same thing, just scaled up versions.
Remember spiders are mostly legs and hair.
remember an average tarantula weighs around 40-100 grams while even the largest species of mantis top it off at 20 grams
Well then it looks like we cant debate this then.
oh yes we can, I have another amazing parity fight:



A tiny mantis fends off a barn funnel weaver, even when caught in the spiders' web the mantis viciously defends itself and gives the spider quite the beating tearing off one of it's limbs and sending it running
What happened to web spiders being weak now?
Your contradicting yourself trying to prove mantis superiority. House centipedes break free from webs for christ sake.
Thats not even a fight, thats a failed hunting attempt.
I'm not contradicting myself I'm using your logic against you, according to what u think web spiders are among the most superior arthropod predators so why did this one have so much trouble taking a tiny mantis?
lol quote when i said web spiders beat mantis in fighting.
I said in hunting.
But hey crocs fail at killing wildebeest every while. I guess they are terrible hunters.
Or cheetah and impala.
Or how about mantis and hornets? rolleyes
yeah but since when do baby wildebeest beat the heck out of crocs and send them home with a missing leg? Also mantis prey on hornets just like vice versa
That wasnt a baby mantis.
Yea but apparently mantis take hyperactive humming birds thus make them do better than pedes taking bats.
Yet majority of the time they fail at killing smaller hornets.
I smell contradiction.
I took back by hyperactive argument becuase it was baseless. Also mantis take birds three times their size centipedes take tiny nectar sipping bats that are paper light so don't start with me.

Mantis do sometimes successfully kill hornets but when they do fail it's becuase of the hornet's flight adavantage and that it's size means there's little to hold onto to help restrain the stinger
Centipedes take snakes spider scorpions rats etc
Give a pede the oppurtunity they will kill a bird too.
You make it seem mantis are the only ones that do that.
And by three times their size thats still paper light so dont start with me either.
ok then let's drop it and do the debate at hand
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Wild
Member Avatar
Apex Predator
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 10:26 AM
Wild Dog
Oct 18 2012, 10:22 AM
Black Ice
Oct 18 2012, 10:17 AM
When fighting they use the front four for manipulation and the back for balance.... At least for tarantulas.
Dont get me wrong tho im not trying to downgrade mantis and if i am i apologize.
It's ok, still it doesn't seem that effective, an emperor scorpion killed a tarantula and only had to hold the first two legs
There was an old korean vid of a spider trashing a scorp like the hood of a car.
Im about to net surf and find it.
ok, it better be a Pandinus or hetermeterus, I sport spider overmost typical desert scorpions
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Black Ice
Member Avatar
Drom King
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I just know the scorp was black....i know it wasnt a emp scorp tho.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
2 users reading this topic (2 Guests and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Zoological Debate & Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply