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| Centipede/spider/mantis/scorpion | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 18 2012, 08:59 AM (44,216 Views) | |
| Cat | Aug 19 2012, 12:47 AM Post #61 |
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Omnivore
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As I sidenote, maybe it's childish but i really hate seeing bugs preying on vertebrates. |
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| Black Ice | Aug 19 2012, 12:49 AM Post #62 |
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Drom King
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I don't get why. No one seems to care when vice versa happens.... |
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| Vodmeister | Aug 19 2012, 12:51 AM Post #63 |
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Ultimate Predator
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When equal in size and no wrestling ability involved: 1. Scorpion 2. Centipede 3. Spider 4. Mantis |
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| Cat | Aug 19 2012, 12:52 AM Post #64 |
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Omnivore
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Hi, where did you find the last pic? It's not in your link. That was a huge snake, and possibly a venomous one. I wouldn't have thought it possible... |
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| Black Ice | Aug 19 2012, 12:55 AM Post #65 |
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Drom King
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Centipedes wrap around you to restrain you,all scorpions do is grab. And define"similiar size" |
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| Cat | Aug 19 2012, 12:57 AM Post #66 |
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Omnivore
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It's just a gut thing. |
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| Cat | Aug 19 2012, 12:59 AM Post #67 |
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Omnivore
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In general IMO 'size' should be defined by the weight for fighting matches. |
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| Wild | Aug 19 2012, 01:08 AM Post #68 |
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Apex Predator
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The picture is from the 1950's it was featured in a newspaper, here it is: http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1755&dat=19501019&id=UeYhAAAAIBAJ&sjid=smQEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4718,5181522 |
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| Black Ice | Aug 19 2012, 01:10 AM Post #69 |
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Drom King
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That is impressive. Yet the snakes inferior to a non venemous animal right wild dog? (its a joke don't bute my head off) |
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| Wild | Aug 19 2012, 01:27 AM Post #70 |
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Apex Predator
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the mantis' size limits it from being able to compete with the larger arthropods, a 4 gram mantid is considered large while an average emperor scorpion is around 30 grams, Goliath's get around 170 grams and Amazonian Centipedes are a whopping 250 grams. But gram for gram praying mantis seem to be the most powerful a 4 gram praying mantis can temporarily restrain a snake 5 times it's size, just look at this article of praying mantis predation on brown tree snakes: www.fort.usgs.gov/Products/Publications/22999/22999.pdf (copy and paste this URL into your browser view the article) Also arthropods taking frogs isn't impressive, frogs are defenseless and hardly put up a good struggle (unless its like a 400 gram bullfrog). Edited by Wild, Aug 19 2012, 01:35 AM.
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| Wild | Aug 19 2012, 01:34 AM Post #71 |
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Apex Predator
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I'm not saying it's inferior i'm saying venom doesn't reflect significant "predatory skill" in my definition predatory skill means it can adapt or taking impressive prey in more than just one way whether that means using a range of physical abilities or it's environment a predator should be effective hunter in not just one area (in the case of venomous animals that means lethal toxins) but several it should be able to switch tactics and prove its' adaptable. |
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| Black Ice | Aug 19 2012, 01:37 AM Post #72 |
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Drom King
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Lb for lb or gram for gram you cant say a mantis is more powerful as their are no centipedes,or emperor scorpions around their size so you cant say lb for lb a mantis is stronger Centipedes take bats larger than them by a good margin, bite them all while restraining their flailing. then kill and managed to hold the body and eat it all while dangling from the ceiling on a few pairs of legs.they also overpower spiders and scorpions using just their body to restrain them before biting. That doesnt show physical strength? In all words a mantis can not be called "more powerful" just because its smaller and Is a macropredator Edited by Black Ice, Aug 19 2012, 01:39 AM.
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| Wild | Aug 19 2012, 02:00 AM Post #73 |
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Apex Predator
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It's not much of a struggle at all the centipede only has to deal with the bat trying to escape for a few seconds before it lands a venomous bite . the centipede doesn't have to fully hold prey in place like a mantis it just needs a little time to find a good spot to bite and keep a just enough grip on it's prey to prevent it from escaping while mantids have to deal with humming birds intensely fighting to break free the entire time they have them in their grasp. I agree centipedes are quite strong but subduing a scorpion is no impressive feat most scorpions have very weak pincer sand cannot get their stingers to pierce a pede's exoskeleton. The only time a pede got a tarantula is when it was in an ambush and the tarantula wasn't very big either. Now I'd like to see a 3 gram pede take a 12 gram snake when they get eaten by snakes that are only a 55 mm longer than them. i saw the video of the centipede taking a snake longer than itself I have no idea how the snake wasn't able to get out but if it struggled I'd fairly sure it could escape, perhaps it didn't have its bask yet and it was not "warmed up" |
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| Black Ice | Aug 19 2012, 02:09 AM Post #74 |
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Drom King
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You do realise it takes more than a few seconds for a centipedes venom to kill its prey? It has to not only hold the bat from getting away,but it also must keep itself from dropping the prey AND rely on its back legs to hold its weight and the prey animal. A hummingbird is impressive but the mantis gets them by ambush, centipedes are able to snatch bats mid flight all while being upside down dangling from a couple pair of legs. Also have you seen the centipede vs spider korean videos? 9/10 the pede either kills or the spider retreats. Basically every pede vs insect match the pede is the winner. And scorpions arent a match for centipedes as they have no way to keep it from wrapping them up. Yet scorpions dominate over spiders and other insects etc. you just can't say the mantis is superior just cause it kills birds every blue moon when the pede is able to snatch and hold much larger bats out of the air all while dangling on a few legs from the ceiling. And that snake looked fine to me, maybe it couldn't do anything because it couldn't defend itself. But it moved perfectly fine so how do you know it wasnt "warmed up". Also how is a snake gonna "struggle" from a pede thats wrapped around it? Edited by Black Ice, Aug 19 2012, 02:17 AM.
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| Wild | Aug 19 2012, 02:50 AM Post #75 |
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Apex Predator
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you're right it does take more than a few seconds it takes less than a minute is the point, praying mantis must keep themselves from dropping prey, you don't think they hang upside down?: ![]() Also mantids don't rely on ambush as much as you think, they attack hummingbirds out in the open with no cover what so ever: ![]() the hummingbird is totally aware of the mantis and has full view of what it's doing, that's NOT an ambush. A centipedes's size and length makes it a superior fighter to other arthropods but not hunter. Dude mantis don't kill bird's "every blue moon" do you see how many isolated accounts there are of mantis' taking hummingbirds? They make a freakin habit out of it! The snake looked fine obviously becuase the problem is with its internal features not external (that and the video was terrible quality). The video obviously wasn't taken in the bright asn early sun when the snake is energized it might've been before the snake basked so it's body temperature was too low, you could tell by it's lethargic behavior. A normal snake would furiously twist and turn to escape as well as biting it's opponent several times. That's nor what's displayed here, instead the snake just sweeps it's head back and forth a few times before feebly twisting it's body in a slow, desperate manner. |
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