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Centipede/spider/mantis/scorpion
Topic Started: Aug 18 2012, 08:59 AM (44,213 Views)
Fist of the North Shrimp
vá á orminum
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@ Wild Dog several species of Crabs living on pacific islands do prey on roosting birds(though this is an exception, most are herbivorous or omnivorous) I could try to make a species list but it would probably be incomplete, as I am mainly focused on aquatic crustaceans.One extinct species from Hawaii,Geograpsus severnsi, seems to have specialised in young(not fledlings or chicks, but young, inexperienced ones) birds, and the recent species,
Johngarthia lagostoma feeds on eggs and hatchling of birds and turtles.

Concerning those Bug fights in rather small cages, I do not give too much on them because they are highly artificial( lack of room for some animals like praying mantis(if they would have been raised in that "arena" they would have died while exuviating), Though I would appreciate if you could send me the link to the video via email.
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Vodmeister
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Vodmeister
Aug 19 2012, 12:51 AM
When equal in size and no venom involved:

1. Scorpion
2. Centipede
3. Spider
4. Mantis
Fixed. agro

Also, I define size parity by similar weight for each insect.
Edited by Vodmeister, Aug 20 2012, 08:15 AM.
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Wild
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Vodmeister
Aug 20 2012, 08:14 AM
Vodmeister
Aug 19 2012, 12:51 AM
When equal in size and no venom involved:

1. Scorpion
2. Centipede
3. Spider
4. Mantis
Fixed. agro

Also, I define size parity by similar weight for each insect.
Why would you put praying mantis last? It doesn't even use venom to begin with an is an expert in the arena of wrestling down prey larger than itself.

1. Mantis
(it doesn't need venom to begin with but still takes prey 2-3 times its size, at parity they seem physically stronger than other arthropods)
2.Centipede
(their length & many legs gives them an advantage over other animals are parity but other than that without their superior size or venom they aren't as lethal)
3. Spider
(a parity they can somewhat manage and fare well grappling with their eight legs but without a size advantage or but like the centipede they rely
too much on a good size advantage and venom)
4. Scorpion
(physically the weakest of them all, scorpions without venom should practically be considered dead meat, there are no records of them taking even remotely impressive prey and tho in the case of emperor scorpions their claws are fabled to be incredibly powerful they appear to fail to use them effectively)
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Wild
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MantisShrimp
Aug 20 2012, 08:03 AM
@ Wild Dog several species of Crabs living on pacific islands do prey on roosting birds(though this is an exception, most are herbivorous or omnivorous) I could try to make a species list but it would probably be incomplete, as I am mainly focused on aquatic crustaceans.One extinct species from Hawaii,Geograpsus severnsi, seems to have specialised in young(not fledlings or chicks, but young, inexperienced ones) birds, and the recent species,
Johngarthia lagostoma feeds on eggs and hatchling of birds and turtles.

Concerning those Bug fights in rather small cages, I do not give too much on them because they are highly artificial( lack of room for some animals like praying mantis(if they would have been raised in that "arena" they would have died while exuviating), Though I would appreciate if you could send me the link to the video via email.
I agree those Japanese bug fights aren't good representations of how the insects would fare in a wild conflict but their the best representations we have and I doubt you could raise any large arthropod in such a small enclosure I'm pretty certain they're wild caught. I'll send you a link
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Wild
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Where's the pede supporter Starkiller?
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Black Ice
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I just don't see this debate coming to a conclusion any time soon as you keep saying centipedes are nothing without their venom.
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Wild
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Starkiller
Aug 20 2012, 11:21 AM
I just don't see this debate coming to a conclusion any time soon as you keep saying centipedes are nothing without their venom.
Then i'll just refrain from mentioning venom, alright my argument about centipedes is their size is what makes them so formidable that's partially the only way they can bring down large prey it's not really physical strength so in that case their feats are not as impressive while we have feats of little 4 gram mantis taking snakes 3 times their size and here is an account of a mantis unsuccessfully attacking a snake 5 TIMES ITS SIZE! THE SNAKE WAS HUGE COMPARED TO THE BUG! UTTER AMAZEMENT! Here's the video:

http://vimeo.com/13407786

skip to the 7:51 minute mark to see the incredible attack, the mantis had a good grip on the snake's head and was overpowering it, yes overpowering a giant reptile (I mean giant to the mantis) 5 times it's size! I Think it would have won if the snake didn't fall out of the tree, if this was on the ground I bet I would have a great account of a mantis killing a snake 5 times bigger than itself. Hope you're convinced especially since you don't see this kinda stuff form any centipedes, at parity a mantis would dominate all other arthropods you listed.
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Black Ice
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And centipedes killing these isn't?
Posted Image
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221Extra
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Deny, deny, deny.
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They killed small bats not big bats.
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Wild
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Starkiller
Aug 21 2012, 05:43 AM
And centipedes killing these isn't?
Posted Image
I'd definitely given it to centipede if it killed that flying fox but if a centipede tried it would fail especially and probably get ripped to shreds (those thing shave some nasty teeth). Dude there are absolutely no records of centipede's taking flying foxes only quite small and relatively weak species of bat's like these tiny guys:


the tiny ghost face bat

Posted Image

The also tiny Davy's Naked Backed Bat

Posted Image

And the tiny, nectar eating Southern Long nosed bat (it's covered in pollen form eating nectar in the picture)

Posted Image


Dude none of those are impressive a giant centipede preying on little pollen feasting bats isn't a feat




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Black Ice
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First are you looking from a proportianal point of view? Or just saying the mantis is stronger just because uts smaller?
Posted Image
That bird had to be a good deal heavier
You cannot say a mantis is physically stronger by the prey it takes, you should know that.
Your blaming the centipedes naturally large size as its downfall
Edited by Black Ice, Aug 21 2012, 06:11 AM.
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Wild
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Starkiller
Aug 21 2012, 06:06 AM
First are you looking from a proportianal point of view? Or just saying the mantis is stronger just because uts smaller?
Posted Image
That bird had to be a good deal heavier
You cannot say a mantis is physically stronger by the prey it takes, you should know that.
Your blaming the centipedes naturally large size as its downfall
There's something funny about that image.......let's take a look at where got got that picture from:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/copleys/426362143/in/photostream/


A big centipede munching on the corpse of a bird that Nobby killed

Followed the smell of dead-thing into the spare bedroom (Nobby often takes his night-time kills in here to chew on) and found this beast scoffing the remains of a bird.

It was really going for it - thrashing about biting huge chunks off. Watched it for a bit then took it outside and smashed its head in (they have a really venomous bite - get them before they get you!)



Dude the bird was already dead! It was killed by the guy's pet cat (or dog maybe) the centipede just was eating the corpse! There's no way on earth that a centipede that small could ever take out a bird that much bigger than itself. What my basic point is the praying mantis is proportionately stronger than the centipede you don't seem centipede's taking things much larger than themselves except for the snake incident in which the snake didn't even put up a fight, implying there was an unseen factor in the fight while you seem mantids being able to take thing 3 times there size. I'm not saying the pede's size is it's downfall I'm saying they rely only on size to overpower prey not proportionate strength, I'd like to see a centipede take a snake 2-3 times it's size when they lose to snakes only 2 inches longer than themselves.
Edited by Wild, Aug 21 2012, 06:41 AM.
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Black Ice
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Honestly, I didn't know the bird was already dead to be honest.
Also what your saying has no factual basis at all
Wolves have killed bison something a cougar has never done(even though the cats bigger)
Does that mean the wolf is proportionately stronger? I think not
Tigers have killed guar does that mean its proportionately more powerful than a larger bear? They don't take big game
You base your logic off "its smaller but takes bigger prey therefore is stronger"when that isn't true in the least be it insects or mammals
If your logic was correct, wolves would be stronger than jaguars simply because "they are smaller but take more impressive prey"as you say, and tigers would be the ultimate mammal as they have killed asian elephants by themselves!
You get my drift, prey size doesn't have anything to do with being physically stronger than another predator.
P.s. I showed a vid of a pede killing a much larger snake, yet you didn't believe it
Also I can't view the link as im on a phone.
Edited by Black Ice, Aug 21 2012, 06:57 AM.
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Wild
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Starkiller
Aug 21 2012, 06:44 AM
Honestly, I didn't know the bird was already dead to be honest.
Also what your saying has no factual basis at all
Wolves have killed bison something a cougar has never done(even though the cats bigger)
Does that mean the wolf is proportionately stronger? I think not
Tigers have killed guar does that mean its proportionately more powerful than a crocodile(which have killed hippos)
You base your logic of "its smaller but takes bigger prey therefore is stronger"
If your logic was correct, wolves would be stronger than jaguars, and tigers would be the ultimate mammal as they have killed asian elephants by themselves!
You get my drift, prey size doesn't have anything to do with being physically stronger than another predator.
Ok I see that picture was a mistake but you should have at least taken a look at here it came form before jumping to conclusions I mean how could a centipede turn a much heavier bird into a bag of guts and feathers? I get your drift (since when have crocs killed adult hippos though and wolf's killing bison's alone are total flukes, purely circumstantial) but still I think the fact that praying mantis kill much larger prey/dangerous prey it makes them much better predator.
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Wild
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Starkiller
Aug 21 2012, 06:44 AM
Honestly, I didn't know the bird was already dead to be honest.
Also what your saying has no factual basis at all
Wolves have killed bison something a cougar has never done(even though the cats bigger)
Does that mean the wolf is proportionately stronger? I think not
Tigers have killed guar does that mean its proportionately more powerful than a larger bear? They don't take big game
You base your logic off "its smaller but takes bigger prey therefore is stronger"when that isn't true in the least be it insects or mammals
If your logic was correct, wolves would be stronger than jaguars simply because "they are smaller but take more impressive prey"as you say, and tigers would be the ultimate mammal as they have killed asian elephants by themselves!
You get my drift, prey size doesn't have anything to do with being physically stronger than another predator.
P.s. I showed a vid of a pede killing a much larger snake, yet you didn't believe it
Also I can't view the link as im on a phone.
dude the snakes wasn't three times larger was it tho? Also the snake didn't put up a struggle therefore it wasn't dangerous since it hardly fought back, it's like that vid of three lions killing a hippo that hardly even move and allows itself to be eaten alive, if the hippo doesn't do anything it's not impressive and that also led people to be skeptical about the hippos' condition. You see vids of snakes fighting mantis' the snakes struggle like heck and attempt to coil or thrash the mantis to death but the mantis' still wins.
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