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| Brygmophyseter v Deinosuchus | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 4 2012, 09:47 PM (5,808 Views) | |
| Taipan | Sep 4 2012, 09:47 PM Post #1 |
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Brygmophyseter shigensis Brygmophyseter is an extinct genus of toothed whale in the sperm whale family with one species Brygmophyseter shigensis. The holotype specimen (SFM-0001) was excavated from the Bessho Formation in the Nagano Prefecture in Japan in 1988 by the residents of Shiga-mura with assistance from the staff of the Shiga Fossil Museum. The specimen is nearly complete, and includes a 140 cm (4' 7 ft) long skull. This specimen came from 15–14 million year old sediments. Unlike the extant sperm whale, Physeter macrocephalus, which has teeth in its lower jaw only; Brygmophyseter has 12 functional teeth on each side of the lower jaws and 12 functional teeth on each side of the upper jaws. The holotype specimen is currently on display in the Gunman Museum of Natural History in Japan. The holotype specimen is around 7 metres (23 ft) long. However, in popular culture, Brygmophyseter have been depicted significantly larger in size – up to 12 metres (39 ft) long. Brygmophyseter was likely among the apex predators of its time. It packed a formidable jaws armed with teeth up to 14 cm (5.5 inches) long. It may have employed sonar to track and disorient a prey item in deep waters, like the modern age Sperm Whales. It may also have used its large head to ram a potential opponent during conflict. Brygmophyseter would also have lived in social groups called pods, and probably hunted in packs, like modern age Orcas. ![]() Deinosuchus rugosus Deinosuchus is an extinct genus related to the alligator that lived 73 to 80 Ma (million years ago), during the late Cretaceous period. The name translates as "terrible crocodile" and is derived from the Greek deinos (δεινός), "terrible", and soukhos (σοῦχος), "crocodile". The first remains were discovered in North Carolina (United States) in the 1850s; the genus was named and described in 1909. Additional fragments were discovered in the 1940s and were later incorporated into an influential, though inaccurate, skull reconstruction at the American Museum of Natural History. Knowledge of Deinosuchus remains incomplete, but better cranial material found in recent years has expanded scientific understanding of this massive predator. Although Deinosuchus was far larger than any modern crocodile or alligator—measuring up to 12 m (39 ft) and weighing up to 8.5 metric tons (9.4 short tons)—in overall appearance it was fairly similar to its smaller relatives. It had large, robust teeth that were built for crushing, and its back was covered with thick hemispherical osteoderms. One study indicates that Deinosuchus may have lived for up to 50 years, growing at a rate similar to that of modern crocodilians, but maintaining this growth over a much longer period of time. Deinosuchus was probably capable of killing and eating large dinosaurs. It may have also fed upon sea turtles, fish, and other aquatic and terrestrial prey. ![]() __________________________________________________________________________
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| FireCrown | Sep 4 2012, 09:50 PM Post #2 |
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Felines,Ursids,and Canid
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Brygmophyseter wins |
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| DinosaurMichael | Sep 4 2012, 10:51 PM Post #3 |
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Apex Predator
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Deinosuchus wins in my opinion. It has a stronger bite and is armor that would protect it.
Edited by DinosaurMichael, Sep 4 2012, 10:52 PM.
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| yigit05 | Sep 5 2012, 12:07 AM Post #4 |
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Kleptoparasite
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Brygmophyseter weight deinosuchus stronger bite 50/50 |
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| Fragillimus335 | Sep 5 2012, 12:19 AM Post #5 |
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Omnivore
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I think Deino's bite would be more harmful to Brygmo than vice versa. Deino might have had the size advantage at these lengths as well. |
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| Jinfengopteryx | Sep 5 2012, 02:13 AM Post #6 |
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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How he heck has Brygmophyseter a weight advantage? Using a modern sperm whale, it likely wouldn't exeed 3 or 4t. It was just 7m long, nowhere as big as JFC depicted.
Could you please give some reasons! |
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| Carcharadon | Sep 5 2012, 06:01 AM Post #7 |
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Shark Toothed Reptile
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Deinosuchus wins, it is larger and has better weaponry
Edited by Carcharadon, Dec 27 2012, 01:17 PM.
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| jj5893 | Sep 5 2012, 06:58 PM Post #8 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Deinosuchus could death roll it and bleed it. |
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| yigit05 | Sep 8 2012, 08:14 PM Post #9 |
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Kleptoparasite
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orca weighing over 10 tonnes (9.8 long tons; 11 short tons),brygmophyseter heavier than the killer whale |
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| Jinfengopteryx | Sep 8 2012, 09:05 PM Post #10 |
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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Why? It is just 7m long, how it's heavier? Can you give a source? |
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| Quiet | Sep 8 2012, 10:26 PM Post #11 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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According to Richard Ellis if based of a sperm whale, Brymophyseter would have a weight to length ratio. So if the whale is 7 meters long, it would have a weight of around 23-25 tons give or take my math could be off. A definite weight advantage for the whale since the description above gives Deinosuchus a weight of 8-9 tons, but I don't know if you can use the length/weight ratio for a stem physteroid since there different than a modern physeter. If it is that size all the whale needs to do is ram Deinosuchus. But the prehistoric gator can win if it ambushes the whale. Meh, it could go eithe way. |
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| Grey | Sep 9 2012, 02:34 AM Post #12 |
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Kleptoparasite
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23-25 tons for a 7 m Brygmophyseter ? I think you did a big mistake in your calculation. Can you provide this quote from Ellis ? |
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| FireCrown | Sep 9 2012, 02:49 AM Post #13 |
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Felines,Ursids,and Canid
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First Bite ins 50/50 |
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| Quiet | Sep 9 2012, 06:01 AM Post #14 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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Sure based of a Sperm Whale, Ellis used a "ton per foot" in his book The Great Sperm Whale: A Natural History of the World's Most Magnificent and Mysterious Creature, Pg. 100 " If a whale 50.5 ft. (15.4 m) weighed 44 short tons, without blood and intestinal fluids, accounted 12%, adding the 10,560 lbs. to 88,000 lbs., you get 98,560 lbs. or 49.28 tons almost exactly a ton per foot." On dinosaurs.about.com they list weight as 5-10 tons which at the max. the whale still outweighs the Deino. Seeing as the whale is 7 meters = 23 ft. going by ton per ft. got 23-25 tons. As I stated I could be wrong since this is a stem physteroid since they are different. If I am, My Bad. Edited by Quiet, Sep 9 2012, 06:02 AM.
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| Grey | Sep 9 2012, 06:10 AM Post #15 |
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Kleptoparasite
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The ton per foot isn't a methodology but an old reference which was already used by whales and only works on animals in a certain range of sizes. Brygmophyseter was obviously well below this range of size. Or a one meter individual would weigh 3 tons ? No 7 m animals weighs around 25 tons. I don't think even the bulkiest living species ever would be that massive. |
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