| Welcome to Carnivora. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Asian Elephants stronger than African Elephants?!?! | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 5 2012, 10:27 PM (9,201 Views) | |
| blaze | Oct 13 2015, 05:54 PM Post #46 |
|
Carnivore
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
@tigerr Where did you get that hippos and white rhinos have 1ft long legs? their femora alone is longer than that. The mammoth linage and the Asian elephant one diverged 6 million years ago, they are at least as dissimilar to each other as humans and chimpanzees. If the Asian elephant is "dwarfed" it probably has more to do with it being a forest animal. |
![]() |
|
| Ceratodromeus | Oct 13 2015, 06:18 PM Post #47 |
|
Aspiring herpetologist
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
@Tigrrr, No. Its because things you try to back your argument are just flat out wrong. Edited by Ceratodromeus, Oct 13 2015, 06:19 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| Wombatman | Oct 13 2015, 08:27 PM Post #48 |
|
Herbivore
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
As someone posted before, asian elephants are bulkier at weight parity and probably stronger pound for pound. But there is also old african bulls that have an impressive build and are far bigger than asian bulls. |
![]() |
|
| blaze | Oct 13 2015, 09:10 PM Post #49 |
|
Carnivore
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I would have agreed with that but after reading Larramendi (2015) I'm not so sure. At comparable shoulder heights asian elephants are heavier but then again at this point you are comparing a full grown asian elephant bull to a young "teenager" African elephant bull, as the latter grows older and more robust, the former grows longer legged (the allometric trajectory followed by animals larger than average) so they end up weighting about the same at 3m tall. At normal sizes Asian elephants have proportionally shorter legs and shorter backs which plays a lot into making them look more robust. Edited by blaze, Oct 14 2015, 07:33 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| tigerr | Oct 13 2015, 09:45 PM Post #50 |
|
Autotrophic Organism
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
1-2 feet height,still all my points are valid Where did you got this bizarre idea of forest animals are dwarf compared to savanna. Asian Buffalo is avg 200 kg heavier and Gaur is 500 kg compared to avg African Buffalo. Indian Rhino is slightly lower than White rhino but it almost saved from extinction wait for few more years. 2. Asian toenails are 5,African 4.BTW toenails are like human fingers but only nails are visible to outside.Another advantage to Asians ================ No. Its because things you try to back your argument are just flat out wrong. NO.... "Stronger the base stronger the building",Plain&simple.Universal rule. ============== As someone posted before, asian elephants are bulkier at weight parity and probably stronger pound for pound. But there is also old african bulls that have an impressive build and are far bigger than asian bulls. Asians are around 50,000 in dense populated region, Africans are 500,000.It is clearly visible which species got divided,Shrink habituate and probably dwarfed. |
![]() |
|
| Spartan | Oct 13 2015, 09:56 PM Post #51 |
|
Kleptoparasite
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Stockiness does not equal strength (especially after reading blaze's post). But I see that it's completely pointless trying to argue with you. You're exactly like Asadas, your arguments are equally dense and your texts equally unintelligible. The only difference is the picture in your profile. |
![]() |
|
| blaze | Oct 14 2015, 08:15 AM Post #52 |
|
Carnivore
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
@tigerr
Because in Africa, where both biomes are right next to each other (relatively speaking) savannah species of the same genus are larger than their forest counterparts, I well aware of the size of indian rhinos and Asian bovids, maybe African forests just have denser vegetation or the deltas and rivers in indian forests help them get larger, anyway even in historical times there's no record of Asian elephants rivalling the largest African elephants so them being dwarfed by overhunting is wishful thinking. |
![]() |
|
| tigerburningbright | Oct 14 2015, 10:46 AM Post #53 |
|
Herbivore
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Aggressive to Humans doesn't necessarily equate with being "more aggressive" (which is an extremely vague and impractical concept anyway) overall or to other animals..... Often times aggression towards Humans depends on a variety of independent factors such as hunting pressure, how much the animal interacts with humans, human population density in a given area etc...For example Leopards (Asian and African) kill and eat far more people each year than Jaguars do....Hippos kill far more people each year than Rhinos do.....Sharks kill far more people each year than Orcas do....But does that mean anything in terms of aggression when dealing with other non Human species or with other members of their own species?? I don't think so..... India is packed full of Humans who often live right on top of wildlife...I imagine that (wild) Asian Elephants have a much more antagonistic relationship with Humans in general simply for those reasons...Where as Africa is far less dense with people and the animals often live in reserves far away from any major human settlements....thus limiting interaction.... Edited by tigerburningbright, Oct 14 2015, 10:48 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| zergthe | Oct 14 2015, 10:53 AM Post #54 |
![]()
Kleptoparasite
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I can't really say if I favor either of them, I don't know much about elephants except that they're massive and strong. I'll ask my friend, his parents lived in Africa for a while. I'll post after I get the info. |
![]() |
|
| tigerr | Oct 14 2015, 08:24 PM Post #55 |
|
Autotrophic Organism
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
You mean African Forests are more greener so African forest elephants are dwarf where as Asian forests are more greener so Asian buffaloes are Bigger,yup listening tell me more.Man you are seriously funny Many factors depends on size. Ex:Asian in Sri lanka are Largest (dense forest), then Indian (less dense compared to lanka),then comes Thailand (think dense forest),Same species. 2.Bengal avg is 221 kg, in sunderban it is 110. Can you specify what are the reasons behind dwarf forest elephants in Africa apart from Blind belief "FOREST=DWARF". @Spartan Stockiness does not equal strength (especially after reading blaze's post). ========== Where on earth I said Stockiness = Strength.Stockiness gives stability stable are stronger,If both species are equal. Ex: Tiger(stocky) get edge wrt Lion(weak legs) in agility&stability.So it can jump, move freely compared to Lion. Of-course Asian elephant can not jump but Asian can move easily&Stability is high by Stocky legs compared to African. In any given day Stable animals can move freely(if both are equal)so it gives edge to Asian.Plain&Simple Edited by tigerr, Oct 14 2015, 08:45 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| Spartan | Oct 14 2015, 08:43 PM Post #56 |
|
Kleptoparasite
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Asian bulls are stockier than African ones at equal heights because these are adolescent. Full grown african bulls are also very robust and on top of that larger than Asian elephants. Larger means more muscle mass and muscle leads to more strength. Stop clutching at straws. |
![]() |
|
| maker | Oct 14 2015, 08:49 PM Post #57 |
|
Apex Predator
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
That's just a plain coincidence, correlation =/= causation. |
![]() |
|
| blaze | Oct 14 2015, 11:44 PM Post #58 |
|
Carnivore
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
^That also applies to what I said, I concede that I'm probably wrong, still I find funny how tigerr talks down to me, as if me being wrong on that statement lends support to what he claims (Asian elephants are dwarfed due to hunting, Asian elephants are overall stronger). The fact of the matter is that African elephant bulls are half a meter taller and 50% heavier than their Asian counterparts, there needs to be strong evidence to claim that Asian elephants are stronger overall despite their size disadvantage... now "pound for pound" is another matter, I really don't know. Edited by blaze, Oct 14 2015, 11:45 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| tigerr | Oct 15 2015, 12:54 AM Post #59 |
|
Autotrophic Organism
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Sorry for crude joke. But what about this line "savannah species of the same genus are larger than their forest counterparts..........maybe African forests just have denser vegetation or the deltas and rivers in indian forests help them get larger" That implies "You mean African Forests are more greener so African forest elephants are dwarf where as Asian forests are more greener so Asian buffaloes are Bigger" =========== Never denied Africans are huge but my sense(2/3 experts) says Asian will beat African.As far as data If mommonths are really huge(it is still debatable) Asians will also reach huge size by genetics or by improving habituate.Sri lanka provides better habituates compared to India that is why they are bigger.But why Thailands are smaller with thick vegetation don't know! |
![]() |
|
| Spartan | Oct 15 2015, 01:37 AM Post #60 |
|
Kleptoparasite
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Your sense doesn't mean anything and woolly mammoths weren't even larger than modern African elephants (not that it would matter).
Edited by Spartan, Oct 15 2015, 01:37 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Zoological Debate & Discussion · Next Topic » |





![]](http://b2.ifrm.com/28122/87/0/p701956/pipright.png)




2:05 AM Jul 14