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| Allosaurus fragilis (Pack of 5) v Spinosaurus aegyptiacus | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 25 2012, 09:11 PM (19,019 Views) | |
| DinosaurMichael | Oct 25 2012, 09:11 PM Post #1 |
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Apex Predator
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Allosaurus fragilis (Pack of 5) Allosaurus (play /ˌælɵˈsɔrəs/) is a genus of large theropod dinosaur that lived 155 to 150 million years ago during the late Jurassic period (Kimmeridgian to early Tithonian). Allosaurus was a large bipedal predator. Its skull was large and equipped with dozens of large, sharp teeth. It averaged 8.5 meters (28 ft) in length, though fragmentary remains suggest it could have reached over 12 meters (39 ft). Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, its three-fingered forelimbs were small, and the body was balanced by a long, heavy tail. As the most abundant large predator in the Morrison Formation, Allosaurus was at the top of the food chain, probably preying on contemporaneous large herbivorous dinosaurs and perhaps even other predators (e.g. Ceratosaurus). Potential prey included ornithopods, stegosaurids, and sauropods. Allosaurus was a typical large theropod, having a massive skull on a short neck, a long tail and reduced forelimbs. Allosaurus fragilis, the best-known species, had an average length of 8.5 meters (28 ft), with the largest definitive Allosaurus specimen (AMNH 680) estimated at 9.7 meters long (32 ft), and an estimated weight of 2.3 metric tons (2.5 short tons). In his 1976 monograph on Allosaurus, James Madsen mentioned a range of bone sizes which he interpreted to show a maximum length of 12 to 13 meters (40 to 43 ft). As with dinosaurs in general, weight estimates are debatable, and since 1980 have ranged between 1500 kilograms (3300 lb), 1000 to 4000 kilograms (2200 to 8800 lb), and 1010 kilograms (2230 lb) for modal adult weight (not maximum). John Foster, a specialist on the Morrison Formation, suggests that 1000 kg (2200 lb) is reasonable for large adults of A. fragilis, but that 700 kg (1500 lb) is a closer estimate for individuals represented by the average-sized thigh bones he has measured. Using the subadult specimen nicknamed "Big Al", researchers using computer modelling arrived at a best estimate of 1,500 kilograms (3,300 lb) for the individual, but by varying parameters they found a range from approximately 1,400 kilograms (3,100 lb) to approximately 2,000 kilograms (4,400 lb). ![]() This picture will be used from now on when more than 1 Allosaurus is requested in a fight. Spinosaurus aegyptiacus Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons). ![]() ______________________________________________________________________________
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| Carcharadon | Jan 3 2013, 03:10 AM Post #46 |
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Shark Toothed Reptile
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I am seriously skeptical of Allosaurus being 8.5 m, its rather 9 m |
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| 7Alx | Jan 3 2013, 03:12 AM Post #47 |
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Herbivore
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Here is less fanboyish and more fair size comparison. These guys (dinosaurs) are based on largest specimens. http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/4158/allospino.png Allosaurus fragilis (femur ~1 m) - AMNH 680 Spinosaurus aegyptiacus (scale x 1.2) - MSNM V4047 |
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| Verdugo | Jan 3 2013, 03:58 AM Post #48 |
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Large Carnivores Enthusiast
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![]() @7Alx: ok, that is better, the Spinosaurus is a bit over-sized for me, but it is still far better than those from Fragillimus Can anyone make a scale of Spinosaurus for me ? Instead of scaling base on the skull length, why don't you try scaling base on the length of the caudal neural spine ? ![]() According to Andread Cau, the caudal neural spine of MSNM is supposed to be 2m long (scaling proportionally base on the holotype) Can ANYONE make a scale base the length of the caudal neural spine ? Please |
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| theropod | Jan 3 2013, 04:02 AM Post #49 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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I would say that´s less reliable. It is easier and less error prone to make a skull reconstruction, determine its lenght and then scale it up based on that instead of riddling about percentages between two specimens that don´t share any preserved elements. anyway, shouldn´t change much. |
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| Fragillimus335 | Jan 3 2013, 05:35 AM Post #50 |
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Omnivore
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Would it scare you to know that the dorsals of the HOLOTYPE Spinosaurus are ~40% longer than those in Sue? Spinosaurus was huge. |
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| 7Alx | Jan 3 2013, 06:01 AM Post #51 |
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Herbivore
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I scare you Tyrannosaurus and Spinosaurus are unrelated theropods! And comparing T. rex dorsal to Spinosaurus is retarted. |
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| Fragillimus335 | Jan 3 2013, 06:10 AM Post #52 |
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Omnivore
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Well then, perhaps the fact that Spinosaurus has dorsals 194% longer than those in a 9.5 meter Baryonyx will have a bigger impact on you. p.s. Tyrannosaurus and Spinosaurus are closely related enough that a 40% difference in vertebra length cannot be ignored. |
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| Maelstrom | Jan 3 2013, 06:13 AM Post #53 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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Wouldn't that make MSMN V4047 like 19 metres |
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| Fragillimus335 | Jan 3 2013, 06:23 AM Post #54 |
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Omnivore
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Yes...19 meters or more. That is, unless it had a really stubby tail, but that wouldn't change it's weight too much. My scale shows a Spinosaurus with a Head and body length based on scaling up Baryonyx, with a shorter tail than usually restored. Edited by Fragillimus335, Jan 3 2013, 06:24 AM.
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| 7Alx | Jan 3 2013, 06:31 AM Post #55 |
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Herbivore
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Baryonyx would have different looking dorsal. It didn't had that big spines. And the spines of Spinosaurus would be on tail too. http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/010/9/b/fisher_king_revisited_by_shartman-d4lvufc.jpg You should know that Gallimimus is much closer related to Tyrannosaurus than T. rex to Spinosaurus and looks completely different. So stop making T. rex/Spinosaurus hybrids. |
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| theropod | Jan 3 2013, 06:32 AM Post #56 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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one question, was the skull size adapted to fit that of MSMN V4047? it shouldn't change due to that. Anyway, I'd say everything points out to spinosaurus not having a proportionally larger head than other spinosaurs. |
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| 7Alx | Jan 3 2013, 06:52 AM Post #57 |
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Herbivore
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Nothing wrong Spinosaurus having head proportionaly as large as its relatives, but against saying 175 cm is too short because the rostrum would be proportionally too long. I remembered that Frag showed juvenile Spino skull, but even if the rostrum of juvenile Spinosaurus was around 1/2 length of whole skull. It doesn't mean that adult would had the same proportions as juvenile. Look at Gharials. The juveniles had much proportionally much shorter snout than adults. The same would be in many long-snouted animals. http://www.aaranyak.org/images/Gharial_Juvenile.jpg http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SpuznZbQ7oQ/TWYrZTIcuvI/AAAAAAAABGM/49iOmUewlXA/s1600/gharial01tfk.jpg |
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| Fragillimus335 | Jan 3 2013, 06:56 AM Post #58 |
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Omnivore
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I'm not talking about height man...length... Also, spines all the way down the tail are speculative at this point. Although his skeletals are well done Scott Hartman is not a time traveler. Also notice I made the sail on my Spinosaurus go quite a ways down the tail. Edited by Fragillimus335, Jan 3 2013, 06:58 AM.
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| MysteryMeat | Jan 3 2013, 07:41 AM Post #59 |
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Herbivore
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It's more like Baryonyx has a really long tail. When I said 194%, I only meant dorsals. Spino is likely 16+ meters, not 19. |
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| theropod | Jan 3 2013, 08:33 AM Post #60 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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if you ask me 16+m, with a proportionally rather short tail, is more than enough to easily overshadow any other theropod in terms of weight. |
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