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Allosaurus fragilis (Pack of 5) v Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Topic Started: Oct 25 2012, 09:11 PM (19,017 Views)
DinosaurMichael
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Allosaurus fragilis (Pack of 5)
Allosaurus (play /ˌælɵˈsɔrəs/) is a genus of large theropod dinosaur that lived 155 to 150 million years ago during the late Jurassic period (Kimmeridgian to early Tithonian). Allosaurus was a large bipedal predator. Its skull was large and equipped with dozens of large, sharp teeth. It averaged 8.5 meters (28 ft) in length, though fragmentary remains suggest it could have reached over 12 meters (39 ft). Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, its three-fingered forelimbs were small, and the body was balanced by a long, heavy tail. As the most abundant large predator in the Morrison Formation, Allosaurus was at the top of the food chain, probably preying on contemporaneous large herbivorous dinosaurs and perhaps even other predators (e.g. Ceratosaurus). Potential prey included ornithopods, stegosaurids, and sauropods. Allosaurus was a typical large theropod, having a massive skull on a short neck, a long tail and reduced forelimbs. Allosaurus fragilis, the best-known species, had an average length of 8.5 meters (28 ft), with the largest definitive Allosaurus specimen (AMNH 680) estimated at 9.7 meters long (32 ft), and an estimated weight of 2.3 metric tons (2.5 short tons). In his 1976 monograph on Allosaurus, James Madsen mentioned a range of bone sizes which he interpreted to show a maximum length of 12 to 13 meters (40 to 43 ft). As with dinosaurs in general, weight estimates are debatable, and since 1980 have ranged between 1500 kilograms (3300 lb), 1000 to 4000 kilograms (2200 to 8800 lb), and 1010 kilograms (2230 lb) for modal adult weight (not maximum). John Foster, a specialist on the Morrison Formation, suggests that 1000 kg (2200 lb) is reasonable for large adults of A. fragilis, but that 700 kg (1500 lb) is a closer estimate for individuals represented by the average-sized thigh bones he has measured. Using the subadult specimen nicknamed "Big Al", researchers using computer modelling arrived at a best estimate of 1,500 kilograms (3,300 lb) for the individual, but by varying parameters they found a range from approximately 1,400 kilograms (3,100 lb) to approximately 2,000 kilograms (4,400 lb).

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This picture will be used from now on when more than 1 Allosaurus is requested in a fight.

Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Spinosaurus is a genus of theropod dinosaur which lived in what is now North Africa, from the lower Albian to lower Cenomanian stages of the Cretaceous period, about 112 to 97 million years ago. Spinosaurus may be the largest of all known carnivorous dinosaurs, even larger than Tyrannosaurus and Giganotosaurus. Estimates published in 2005 and 2007 suggest that it was 12.6 to 18 metres (41 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 20.9 tonnes (7.7 to 23.0 short tons) in weight. The skull of Spinosaurus was long and narrow like that of a modern crocodilian. Spinosaurus is thought to have eaten fish; evidence suggests that it lived both on land and in water like a modern crocodilian. The distinctive spines of Spinosaurus, which were long extensions of the vertebrae, grew to at least 1.65 meters (5.4 ft) long and were likely to have had skin connecting them, forming a sail-like structure, although some authors have suggested that the spines were covered in fat and formed a hump. Multiple functions have been put forward for this structure, including thermoregulation and display. Dal Sasso et al. (2005) assumed that Spinosaurus and Suchomimus had the same body proportions in relation to their skull lengths, and thereby calculated that Spinosaurus was 16 to 18 meters (52 to 59 ft) in length and 7 to 9 tonnes (7.7 to 9.9 short tons) in weight. The Dal Sasso et al. estimates were criticized because the skull length estimate was uncertain, and (assuming that body mass increases as the cube of body length) scaling Suchomimus which was 11 meters (36 ft) long and 3.8 tonnes (4.2 short tons) in mass to the range of estimated lengths of Spinosaurus would produce an estimated body mass of 11.7 to 16.7 tonnes (12.9 to 18.4 short tons).

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Dark allosaurus
Oct 25 2012, 08:48 AM
3-6 allosaurus or as much needed vs spinosaurus
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SpinoInWonderland
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thesporerex
Aug 30 2013, 01:42 AM
SpinoInWonderland
Aug 29 2013, 08:41 PM
thesporerex
Aug 29 2013, 06:04 PM
I think spinosaurus can handle it, its still heavier than all the allosaurus combined and would have and easier time picking them off since 1 ram, kick, tail swing, swipe and possibly bite would kill the allosaurus instantly or in seconds at most.
Tail swing? :blink:

I don't think Spinosaurus' tail is of much use as a weapon.
I don't think spinosaurus would use it as a weapon but if the tail impacted with the allosaurus he would die by the impact force.
Knock it over, yes, but killing is a stretch.

Spinosaurus doesn't seem to be able to turn it's tail or body fast enough to generate forces sufficient to kill a multi-tonne animal with a tail swipe.

Why? It's dorsal ridge would cause air resistance, preventing the huge creature from making fast turns. And since it also extends into the tail, well, the tail would also be affected.
Edited by SpinoInWonderland, Aug 30 2013, 01:49 AM.
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thesporerex
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SpinoInWonderland
Aug 30 2013, 01:48 AM
thesporerex
Aug 30 2013, 01:42 AM
SpinoInWonderland
Aug 29 2013, 08:41 PM
thesporerex
Aug 29 2013, 06:04 PM
I think spinosaurus can handle it, its still heavier than all the allosaurus combined and would have and easier time picking them off since 1 ram, kick, tail swing, swipe and possibly bite would kill the allosaurus instantly or in seconds at most.
Tail swing? :blink:

I don't think Spinosaurus' tail is of much use as a weapon.
I don't think spinosaurus would use it as a weapon but if the tail impacted with the allosaurus he would die by the impact force.
Knock it over, yes, but killing is a stretch.

Spinosaurus doesn't seem to be able to turn it's tail or body fast enough to generate forces sufficient to kill a multi-tonne animal with a tail swipe.

Why? It's dorsal ridge would cause air resistance, preventing the huge creature from making fast turns. And since it also extends into the tail, well, the tail would also be affected.
well if not kill but it would be injured , its tail is probably longer than allosaurus's entire body.
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thesporerex
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Lol now I would say spinosaurus wins 85% maybe even more. Its like putting a lion vs 5 jackals.
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Taipan
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Drift
Dec 18 2013, 02:51 PM
Allosaurus fragilis (x3) vs spinosaurus aegypticus


We do have a very similar thread that maybe you could share your views in!
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theropod
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What I´m wondering...We all probably agree flocks of Allosaurus were capable of subduing sauropods comparable in size to Spinosaurus.

How much greater would the difficulties be with a Spinosaurus? Note I mean this solely in the context of this confrontation, not in the context of whether a Spinosaurus would beat a Diplodocus or Barosaurus.
Of course a Spinosaurus has more potent weaponery and is very likely a much more dangerous creature than a diplodocid sauropod of similar mass, but would the traits because of which it is also be more useful against a group of smaller agressors such as Allosaurus?

How many and how quickly could it dispatch this kind of foes?
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spinosaurus rex
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honestly, i see this as a bunch of African wild dogs vs a large lion. larger predators nearly always dominate smaller ones in regular situation. spinosaurus would most likely chase them off. in a situation of life or death though, it might be more interesting, but i think spinosaurus weaponry would dispatch a couple and the rest will flee. he might be the same size as some diplodocids, but is much more dangerous then any creature the allosaurs have ever encountered. 6 allosaurus will even the odds. anything more then 6 will be in favor of the allosaurs.
Edited by spinosaurus rex, Dec 19 2013, 01:31 AM.
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Bistahieversor
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I think in this case it comes down more towards behavior than sheer power or size.

Here's what I mean: If we assume that the Allosaurs are acting as a pack, what kind of dynamics do they have? If they were intelligent enough to act cooperatively, then they might have a superb chance of taking down a Spinosaurus. However, if they are merely mobbing the poor Spino then they might be more likely to make costly mistakes that could get several of them killed.

I think that if the Allosaurs were mobbing a Spinosaurus it is likely that it might turn out (as Spinosaurus Rex aptly put) just like a lion vs. wild dog type scenario. Sure, the smaller predators should, in theory, be able to injure and bring down a larger carnivore, but often times they are scared off by threat displays or the size of their adversary.

If the Allosaurs are acting cooperatively, however, I'm not sure that Spinosaurus would have the mental acuity to handle five different threats all acting as a unit. I can imagine Allosaurs using a "death by a thousand cuts" approach, using their blade-like teeth to inflict as many wounds as possible, essentially draining the Spinosaurus dry.

Just a thought.
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Spinodontosaurus
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^That's my line of thinking in most pack vs. giant scenarios.
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spinosaurus rex
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I agree with the statement above as well. 5 allosaurs might be able to do it more often, but that's a thought I imagine in a fight to the death situation. I say in a regular situation, spinosaurus would just chase off the pack like lions do to African wild dog/ hyena packs or what bears do to wolf packs. the odds are also determined by the allosaurs strategy. I agree a mobbing method of killing can take down a spinosaurus as they might do to suropods of similar size, but as I stated before, spinosaurus is a suropod sized carnivore with many defensives and even offensives. a bite from a spinosaurus can potentially incapacitate a allosaurus and it goes just as well with the arms. and to top it all off, it can even effectively trample them. they can attack the flank to avoid too much losses, but I can't imagine this fight without at least 2 allosaurus fatalities.
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Vobby
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Do we have evidence, or at least well developed theories, of pack hunting in Allosaurus? (or in other theropods?)
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spinosaurus rex
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it was only a suggestion that was given off by post#82. and to my knowledge, we really don't have a great understanding on how allosaurs hunted. I mean, we suggested the hatchet bites of allosaurs being quite dangerous, but this method of killing honestly seems more suited to kill smaller creatures in my opinion. does anyone here knows how effective a hatchet bite might be against suropods, or for this situation, a giant carnivore that can weigh more then 5 greater?
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Vobby
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Hatchet bite or not, Allosaurus has clear adaptations for brontophagy, so to injure a Spinosaurus wouldn't be a problem. The real problem is to assume that it could hunt as a group. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we only have a few birds of prey that sometimes hunt in pairs or very small groups, as examples of "pack hunting" amongst Reptilia. So, I think is wrong to imagine this match like it was "wolf's pack vs bigger bear" or something like that. In short, Spinosaurus wins.
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Jinfengopteryx
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Vobby
Dec 23 2013, 11:04 PM
Do we have evidence, or at least well developed theories, of pack hunting in Allosaurus? (or in other theropods?)
Farlow suggested this here.
Unfortunately, I have no access, so I can't tell you how he backed up his theory.
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Carcharadon
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Is there any reason to assume it didn't hunt in packs? Is there any evidence against pack hunting in allosaurus, or any other large theropod for that matter?
Edited by Carcharadon, Dec 24 2013, 12:09 AM.
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spinosaurus rex
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Vobby
Dec 23 2013, 11:23 PM
Hatchet bite or not, Allosaurus has clear adaptations for brontophagy, so to injure a Spinosaurus wouldn't be a problem. The real problem is to assume that it could hunt as a group. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we only have a few birds of prey that sometimes hunt in pairs or very small groups, as examples of "pack hunting" amongst Reptilia. So, I think is wrong to imagine this match like it was "wolf's pack vs bigger bear" or something like that. In short, Spinosaurus wins.
I wasn't questioning allosaurus capabilities of hunting suropods. just about everyone understands their adaptions for killing them. I was only asking if anyone knew how effective a hatchet bite would be to a larger opponent. I doubt they use it. anyhow, its actually a common spectacle among larger birds to scare off smaller birds, particularly cases where a carcass is involved. birds of prey had even scared off flocks of rival birds in order to take claim of the meal themselves. so the idea of a pack vs a larger animal isn't really that farfetched. reptilia often rely on intimidation to avoid or win confrontation so your statement makes since as well, but as we can't travel back in time to observe how these creatures would have hunted, killing tactics is often left to educated guesses. I agree though, spinosaurus can take this
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