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Sooo, dinosaurs have officially turned into birds
Topic Started: Nov 3 2012, 08:13 AM (10,706 Views)
Godzillasaurus
Reptile King
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Not in the evolutionary sense, but in the sarcastic sense. Dinosaurs used to be large, scaly, beasts. Now, everyone thinks they all (yes, including sauropods) had feathers. If there have been countless dinosaur skin-impressions, and only a couple feathered non-ceoulosaur theropods, I guess that just puts feathers on every dinosaur, even when the evidence states otherwise. Anyone else bothered by this? :angry:
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DinosaurFan95
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Omnivore
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Deal with it mammal lovers!
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maker
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Apex Predator
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Tyrannosauridae is much more related to birds than to other large non-avian theropods such as Abelisauridae, yet they are lumped together as scaly, when only the latter is probably scaly.
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Thalassophoneus
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Pelagic Killer
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Maybe people think that all dinosaurs were feathered because of the misconception that birds are descendants of dinosaurs (in general). Sometimes I even wonder why were dinosaurs a single group while they were so different. I mean compare Parvicursor with Amphicoelias! Nobody could imagine that they were both dinosaurs! All what keeps dinosaurs a single group is that they all had common ancestors. If non-avian dinosaurs hadn't died they would keep evolving into completely different things.
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Hatzegopteryx
Unicellular Organism
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That's kinda like saying we should consider all organisms life forms because they're all too different, even though they all share some feature. The differences are told apart by sub taxa.
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Mesopredator
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Disaster taxa
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DarkGricer
Mar 21 2015, 01:40 AM
Mesopredator
Mar 21 2015, 01:27 AM
As a predator you don't have to necessary blend in. I would argue that in persistence hunting you can be as fancy as you wish. Only species specifically adopted to ambushing would be the ones that need to have camouflage.
Well, that still covers the majority of theropods.
Says whom? Where do you base this on?

Not that it is unlikely per se. And I bet you know more than me. Still, unless you've got a good source on theropod paleoecology, I don't see why I have to believe you. All I can find on the internet about it is this, and speculation about pack hunting.

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DinosaurFan95
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KaizerGoji
Mar 21 2015, 08:20 PM
Maybe people think that all dinosaurs were feathered because of the misconception that birds are descendants of dinosaurs (in general). Sometimes I even wonder why were dinosaurs a single group while they were so different. I mean compare Parvicursor with Amphicoelias! Nobody could imagine that they were both dinosaurs! All what keeps dinosaurs a single group is that they all had common ancestors. If non-avian dinosaurs hadn't died they would keep evolving into completely different things.
Thinking that every dinosaur was feathered is just as bad as saying none were feathered, in a group as diverse as Dinosaura, you are going to have a wide range of skin coverings, from dermal plates, to fuzz and feathers.

Birds just represent a SINGLE tip of a SINGLE branch of a massive bush. Just within that branch alone you have fully feathered (microraptor) to bald (tyrannosaurus).

We are going through a neo Paulian age of assumption and exaggeration, remember when athletic Dinos first arrived on the scene? Soon you had sprinting stegos and leaping triceratops! Now these views are more moderated, and within time, ALL DINOS WERE FEATHERD! Will die down.
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Spartan
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KaizerGoji
Mar 21 2015, 08:20 PM
Sometimes I even wonder why were dinosaurs a single group while they were so different.
That's very outdated thinking. One of the big achievements of the theory of evolution is that genetics matter in determining of how close animals (or plants or fungi) are related, not their looks.

Btw, Amphicoelias and Parvicursor look more alike than a bat and a blue whale.
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DarkGricer
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Mar 22 2015, 12:50 AM
DarkGricer
Mar 21 2015, 01:40 AM
Mesopredator
Mar 21 2015, 01:27 AM
As a predator you don't have to necessary blend in. I would argue that in persistence hunting you can be as fancy as you wish. Only species specifically adopted to ambushing would be the ones that need to have camouflage.
Well, that still covers the majority of theropods.
Says whom? Where do you base this on?

Not that it is unlikely per se. And I bet you know more than me. Still, unless you've got a good source on theropod paleoecology, I don't see why I have to believe you. All I can find on the internet about it is this, and speculation about pack hunting.

The majority of theropods where built to sprint, rather then run for long periods of time (At least, that's what I have read and heard literally everywhere I've seen people talking about theropod stamina). Sprinting is most useful for ambush predators, as it allows them to close distance quickly. If you hunt in some other way, you probably want some other type of running legs, assuming you need to run.
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Thalassophoneus
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Spartan
Mar 22 2015, 01:24 AM
KaizerGoji
Mar 21 2015, 08:20 PM
Sometimes I even wonder why were dinosaurs a single group while they were so different.
That's very outdated thinking. One of the big achievements of the theory of evolution is that genetics matter in determining of how close animals (or plants or fungi) are related, not their looks.

Btw, Amphicoelias and Parvicursor look more alike than a bat and a blue whale.
Exactly! Mammals are different too! They are all mammals because they have common ancestors.
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DinosaurFan95
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Don't say the m- word here, kaizer.
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Thalassophoneus
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Allosaurusatrox
Mar 22 2015, 06:01 AM
Don't say the m- word here, kaizer.
Oh! Sorry!
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DinosaurFan95
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Omnivore
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It's ok
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theropod
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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Quote:
 
Maybe people think that all dinosaurs were feathered because of the misconception that birds are descendants of dinosaurs (in general).
That line, in itself, is a misconception.

Quote:
 
Sometimes I even wonder why were dinosaurs a single group while they were so different. I mean compare Parvicursor with Amphicoelias! Nobody could imagine that they were both dinosaurs!

as you say yourself:
"All what keeps dinosaurs a single group is that they all had common ancestors."

This is the one and only definition a biological group, sharing common ancestry. How different they look has no bearing on that, as long as it is clear that they share a common ancestor they belong in the same group, just like humans and sponges are also in the same group, namely animals, which happens to have existed for a very long time and be very diverse. If dinosaurs survive for another billion years, they will still be dinosaurs, no matter how different they are from Amphicoelias or Parvicursor.
Edited by theropod, Mar 22 2015, 08:59 PM.
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maker
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Agree, a descendant of a clade will always be in that clade, eg. birds will always be dinosaurs which will always be archosaurs which will always be diapsids which will always be true reptiles which will always be sauropsids which will always be reptiles.
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Mesopredator
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Disaster taxa
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DarkGricer
Mar 22 2015, 04:56 AM
Mesopredator
Mar 22 2015, 12:50 AM
DarkGricer
Mar 21 2015, 01:40 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Says whom? Where do you base this on?

Not that it is unlikely per se. And I bet you know more than me. Still, unless you've got a good source on theropod paleoecology, I don't see why I have to believe you. All I can find on the internet about it is this, and speculation about pack hunting.

The majority of theropods where built to sprint, rather then run for long periods of time (At least, that's what I have read and heard literally everywhere I've seen people talking about theropod stamina). Sprinting is most useful for ambush predators, as it allows them to close distance quickly. If you hunt in some other way, you probably want some other type of running legs, assuming you need to run.
Thanks. Though I'll admit that I'm not fully convinced.
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