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Top predators during the Ice Age?
Topic Started: Dec 2 2012, 05:28 AM (1,830 Views)
Agentjaguar
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Herbivore
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At the peak of the last ice age (~24kya), what were the top predators on each continent (excluding humans):

North America = Arctodus simus
South America = Smilodon populator
Europe = Cave lion
Africa = African lion??
Asia = Ngandong tiger??
Australia = Thylacine?? (thylacoleo and megalania were extinct at this point)
Antarctica = Killer whale/leopard seal??

And how much has it changed since then (present day)...

N.America = Polar bear
S.America = Jaguar
Europe = Are there even any animals left in Europe? lol I guess the grizzly bear
Africa = lion
Asia = Bengal/Siberian tiger
Australia = Dingo
Antarctica = still the same


Kind of sad.
Edited by Agentjaguar, Dec 2 2012, 05:31 AM.
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Ausar
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Your idea is pretty fair.
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ManEater
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"Europe = Are there even any animals left in Europe? I guess the grizzly bear"


Grizzly bear in Europe? it's a joke?
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Fishfreak
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North America: short-faced bear, smilodon fatalis and other large cats, dire wolf packs and extant stuff.
South America: Smilodon populator,
Europe: giant polar bears, cave bears, cave lions and extant stuff
Asia: Ngandong tiger and pretty much the same as Europe.
Africa: extant stuff and atlas bear
Australia: thylacine and Salties
Antarctica: leopard seals and orcas

Now

North America: Kodiak, polar and grizzly bears, cougars and wolf packs
South America: jaguars, caimans and anacondas
Europe: Brown bears and wolf packs.
Asia: Brown bears, Tigers, Wolf packs, leopards and crocs
Africa: lions and other big cats, crocs and hyenas
Australia: dingoes, perenties and Salties
Antarctica: same as ice age
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mharper14
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Africa- prehistoric bear, or megateron ( big cat)
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Shaochilong
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North America: Canis dirus, Smilodon fatalis, Panthera leo atrox, Arctodus simus, Ursus maritimus

Europe: Panthera leo spelaea

Asia: Panthera tigris soloensis

Africa: Ursus arctos crowtheri

Australia: Megalania, Thylacoleo

South America: Smilodon populator

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FelinePowah
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Lord of the Allosaurs
Apr 2 2013, 10:18 PM
North America: Canis dirus, Smilodon fatalis, Panthera leo atrox, Arctodus simus, Ursus maritimus

Europe: Panthera leo spelaea

Asia: Panthera tigris soloensis

Africa: Ursus arctos crowtheri

Australia: Megalania, Thylacoleo

South America: Smilodon populator

When was a bear a top predator in Africa???
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Vivec
Canid and snake enthusiast.
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Asia: Giant Short Faced Bear

N.America: Giant Short Faced Shark

Africa: Giant Short Faced Nelson Mandela

Europe: Giant Short Faced Lion

Australia: Steve Irwin

S.America: Giant Short Faced Fox

Antartic: Giant Short Faced Iceberg
Edited by Vivec, Apr 3 2013, 12:39 AM.
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blaze
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Scythian lol

On topic, with the exception of the polar bear, is it right to call any species of bear (omnivorous, subsisting up to 90% on plant material) a top predator just because they are/were the biggest carnivorans in their environment?
Edited by blaze, Apr 3 2013, 01:59 AM.
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Shaochilong
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FelinePowah
Apr 3 2013, 12:34 AM
Lord of the Allosaurs
Apr 2 2013, 10:18 PM
North America: Canis dirus, Smilodon fatalis, Panthera leo atrox, Arctodus simus, Ursus maritimus

Europe: Panthera leo spelaea

Asia: Panthera tigris soloensis

Africa: Ursus arctos crowtheri

Australia: Megalania, Thylacoleo

South America: Smilodon populator

When was a bear a top predator in Africa???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_bear
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Shaochilong
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FelinePowah
Apr 3 2013, 12:34 AM
Lord of the Allosaurs
Apr 2 2013, 10:18 PM
North America: Canis dirus, Smilodon fatalis, Panthera leo atrox, Arctodus simus, Ursus maritimus

Europe: Panthera leo spelaea

Asia: Panthera tigris soloensis

Africa: Ursus arctos crowtheri

Australia: Megalania, Thylacoleo

South America: Smilodon populator

When was a bear a top predator in Africa???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_bear
While it was mostly a herbivore and only took small animals such as rodents, no other animals hunted the Atlas bear and therefore it would be an apex predator.
Edited by Shaochilong, Apr 3 2013, 03:11 AM.
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blaze
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How are you so sure that no other animals hunted it? Vanishing And Endangered Species by P R Yadav says that it fed mostly on roots, acorns and fruits, and that it was smaller than the black bear, excluding the giant (or obese) ~300kg+ black bears, a black bear sized bear could easily fall prey to a Barbary lion, which the Atlas bear shared its habitat.
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Ursus arctos
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blaze
Apr 3 2013, 01:57 AM
On topic, with the exception of the polar bear, is it right to call any species of bear (omnivorous, subsisting up to 90% on plant material) a top predator just because they are/were the biggest carnivorans in their environment?
Some brown bears can be highly predatory!
Posted Image
Aichun, X., Zhigang, J., Chunwang, L., Jixun, G., Guosheng, W., Ping, C., 2006. Summer food habits of brown bears in Kekexili Nature Reserve, Qinghai-Tibetan Plateau, China. Ursus 17, 132-137.

Note that meat is far more digestible than plant matter.

Posted Image
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Persson, I.-L., Wikan, S., Swenson, K., Mysterud, I., 2001. The diet of the brown bear Ursus arctos in the Pasvik Valley, northeastern Norway. Wildlife Biology 7, 27-37.

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Gau, J., Case, R., Penner, D., McLoughlin, P., 2001. Feeding Patterns of Barren-Ground Grizzly Bears in the Central Canadian Arctic. Arctic 55, 339-344.

Note in the Norway study ~50% fecal volume translated to ~80% of the dietary intake, and ~85% of the dietary energy intake. Caribou made up to 76% of brown bear fecal volume (in Autumn) in the above study.


Brown bears can be major sources of mortality for herbivore species:
Sixty-two percent of the documented total adult muskoxen mortality (n=73) was attributed to brown bear predation, which accounted for an average of 9 adult muskoxen deaths annually. During the same period, 58 percent of documented calf mortality (n=45) was caused by brown bear predation. This resulted in an average of 5 calves known to be preyed on by brown bears.
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Thanks to Warsaw for translating the above tables. Compare predatory impact of brown bears on wild boar vs that of the other predators.

(Depending on region) they certainly look like major predators of large herbivores.

EDIT:
And prior to the last glacial maximum in Europe (before the cave bear went extinct)...
Posted Image
Posted Image
Bocherens, H., Drucker, D., Bonjean, D., Bridault, A., Conard, N., Cupillard, C., Germonpré, M., Höneisen, M., Münzel, S., Napierala, H., Patou-Mathis, M., Stephan, E., Uerpmann, H., Ziegler, R., 2011. Isotopic evidence for dietary ecology of cave lion (Panthera spelaea) in North-Western Europe: Prey choice, competition and implications for extinction. Quarternary International 245, 249-261.

Many brown bears grouped with other hypercarnivores.
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populator135
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The top predator in Africa at that time would probably be Machairodus Kabir
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blaze
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Damn... well, I got schooled lol



@populator135
Machairodus kabir (actually Amphimachairodus kabir) lived in the late Miocene, some 7 million years ago, the OP asked for predators from ~24 thousand years ago.
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