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Do you believe animals are equal to humans?
Topic Started: Dec 10 2012, 11:41 AM (15,915 Views)
Fishfreak
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Friend of the fish
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Vita
Dec 12 2012, 04:37 PM
If someone offered me a billion dollars to get rid of any animal, I'd do so, even if it was my own. However, no so with any family member. But that's just me.
WOW so you'd kill your own pet for money :huh:  :o
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Black Ice
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Drom King
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Weird pyschotic comments from both sides....... Yep I'm staying neutral.
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The Unrepentant Misanthrope
Autotrophic Organism
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Random ramblings:
Thanks to my health issues I have not been able to keep up with the rest of you so I shall briefly summarise as follows:
For a start the title of this debate is utterly meaningless, one might as well ask if you believe animals are equal to okapis?
Fishfreak. If the guy throwing up on me in my house was a home invader I would have no compunction about killing him, indeed I would consider myself to have done society a favour.
Fragillimus335. No one is saying that they "would pick up a gun, and blow a little girl's brains out to save a pod of dolphins". Don't twist other people's words in order to score points, it's dishonest to say the least.
Wild Dog. I would not kill the decent family man under any circumstances.
Fishfreak. If said person was Sadistic Sarah Palin, Michael Vick, George W(anker) Bush, Ken Salazar, either of the Cock brothers or anyone else of similar persuasion, definitely yes, I'll take the invertebrates every time.
Brolyeuphyfusion. "Vermln" is a highly loaded and pejorative term without meaning.
Fragillimus335. If this forum is for people who like animals then WTF are you doing here?
Aside to Asaurus. You have me totally confused, are you (like me) bipolar? Or twins perhaps?
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Vivec
Canid and snake enthusiast.
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Why are so many of these people human supremists? I don't know why caring for other lifeforms is unnatural. If it was up to me, I'd eliminate half the entire human population just to even out all the animals we made extinct. If someone killed a Wasp near me I would personally dance on their graves.
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Red Dog


The whole premise of this thread is silly. The idea that people are treating animals in general better than other humans is absurd. Cruelty and persecution of animals is widespread. For example, as far as I know no government policies call for "harvesting" 30%-50% of human populations and say do not worry cause the population will not go extinct.

Also, the idea that people should let animals suffer cause people need help is ridiculous. Different things motivate different people and if someone wants to spend their time and money doing good then that should be encouraged. Its not like if they didn't help animals they would help other people. Most likely they would just watch TV or do whatever they normally do. Most people who do good for animals are generally much more compassionate to other people than the average person in my experience. On the other hand, people who persecute or commit cruelty to animals tend to be less caring for other people. For example, serial killers often start torturing animals and most hunters (especially predator hunters) tend to be pretty opposed to helping poor and downtrodden people. Obviously, there are exceptions to these rules.

That being said, I'm not opposed to hunting of prey species since most modern ecosystems evolved with humans hunting. However, amounts taken should not be excessive and be roughly equivalent to what early humans took with limited technology. Still, I do think a lot of modern hunting techniques, such as advanced weapon technology, baiting, calling, etc., are unsporting and should be banned.

Edited by Red Dog, Dec 13 2012, 03:14 AM.
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The Unrepentant Misanthrope
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Fishfreak
Dec 10 2012, 05:59 PM
Quote:
 
for all of those who have said humans and animals are all equal, tell me do you cry or feel sad whenever you smack a fly or mosquito, cause you'd probably cry if you killed a human, just cuz he/she annoyed you.

I never smack flies or mossies and I'd never kill anyone for annoying me, even if I could get away with it.
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Ausar
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Reddhole
Dec 13 2012, 03:10 AM
The whole premise of this thread is silly. The idea that people are treating animals in general better than other humans is absurd. Cruelty and persecution of animals is widespread. For example, as far as I know no government policies call for "harvesting" 30%-50% of human populations and say do not worry cause the population will not go extinct.

Also, the idea that people should let animals suffer cause people need help is ridiculous. Different things motivate different people and if someone wants to spend their time and money doing good then that should be encouraged. Its not like if they didn't help animals they would help other people. Most likely they would just watch TV or do whatever they normally do. Most people who do good for animals are generally much more compassionate to other people than the average person in my experience. On the other hand, people who persecute or commit cruelty to animals tend to be less caring for other people. For example, serial killers often start torturing animals and most hunters (especially predator hunters) tend to be pretty opposed to helping poor and downtrodden people. Obviously, there are exceptions to these rules.

That being said, I'm not opposed to hunting of prey species since most modern ecosystems evolved with humans hunting. However, amounts taken should not be excessive and be roughly equivalent to what early humans took with limited technology. Still, I do think a lot of modern hunting techniques, such as advanced weapon technology, baiting, calling, etc., are unsporting and should be banned.

Reddhole, all I want to know is if you believe animals should be treated the way we treat humans.
Edited by Ausar, Dec 13 2012, 05:44 AM.
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Ausar
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titanoceratops
Dec 13 2012, 02:21 AM
Random ramblings:
Thanks to my health issues I have not been able to keep up with the rest of you so I shall briefly summarise as follows:
For a start the title of this debate is utterly meaningless, one might as well ask if you believe animals are equal to okapis?
Fishfreak. If the guy throwing up on me in my house was a home invader I would have no compunction about killing him, indeed I would consider myself to have done society a favour.
Fragillimus335. No one is saying that they "would pick up a gun, and blow a little girl's brains out to save a pod of dolphins". Don't twist other people's words in order to score points, it's dishonest to say the least.
Wild Dog. I would not kill the decent family man under any circumstances.
Fishfreak. If said person was Sadistic Sarah Palin, Michael Vick, George W(anker) Bush, Ken Salazar, either of the Cock brothers or anyone else of similar persuasion, definitely yes, I'll take the invertebrates every time.
Brolyeuphyfusion. "Vermln" is a highly loaded and pejorative term without meaning.
Fragillimus335. If this forum is for people who like animals then WTF are you doing here?
Aside to Asaurus. You have me totally confused, are you (like me) bipolar? Or twins perhaps?
My view is that, I would mostly value a human over an animal, but in some circumstances it would be the other way around.
Edited by Ausar, Dec 13 2012, 05:36 AM.
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The Unrepentant Misanthrope
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ZetaQuetzalcoatlus
Dec 11 2012, 05:25 AM


Quote:
 
Don't even get me started on the people who kill animals (Leopards, Minks, Wolves, Jaguars) for their fur...

I won't. Because if I do you'll state a few unpalatable (to speciesists) facts and wind up being called a scumbag or a slimy ne'er do well. Or both.
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Ausar
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titanoceratops
Dec 13 2012, 05:36 AM
ZetaQuetzalcoatlus
Dec 11 2012, 05:25 AM


Quote:
 
Don't even get me started on the people who kill animals (Leopards, Minks, Wolves, Jaguars) for their fur...

I won't. Because if I do you'll state a few unpalatable (to speciesists) facts and wind up being called a scumbag or a slimy ne'er do well. Or both.
I don't see the point of hunting for fur.
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Wyvax
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Asaurus
Dec 13 2012, 05:38 AM
titanoceratops
Dec 13 2012, 05:36 AM
ZetaQuetzalcoatlus
Dec 11 2012, 05:25 AM


Quote:
 
Don't even get me started on the people who kill animals (Leopards, Minks, Wolves, Jaguars) for their fur...

I won't. Because if I do you'll state a few unpalatable (to speciesists) facts and wind up being called a scumbag or a slimy ne'er do well. Or both.
I don't see the point of hunting for fur.
In this day and age there is no reason to hunt soley for fur, we have other methods to keep ourselves warm. That said, if you're hunting for meat I see no harm in utilizing the hides for clothes or blankets.
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Ausar
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Wyvax
Dec 13 2012, 05:40 AM
Asaurus
Dec 13 2012, 05:38 AM
titanoceratops
Dec 13 2012, 05:36 AM
ZetaQuetzalcoatlus
Dec 11 2012, 05:25 AM


Quote:
 
Don't even get me started on the people who kill animals (Leopards, Minks, Wolves, Jaguars) for their fur...

I won't. Because if I do you'll state a few unpalatable (to speciesists) facts and wind up being called a scumbag or a slimy ne'er do well. Or both.
I don't see the point of hunting for fur.
In this day and age there is no reason to hunt soley for fur, we have other methods to keep ourselves warm. That said, if you're hunting for meat I see no harm in utilizing the hides for clothes or blankets.
I agree.
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Black Ice
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titanoceratops
Dec 13 2012, 05:36 AM
ZetaQuetzalcoatlus
Dec 11 2012, 05:25 AM


Quote:
 
Don't even get me started on the people who kill animals (Leopards, Minks, Wolves, Jaguars) for their fur...

I won't. Because if I do you'll state a few unpalatable (to speciesists) facts and wind up being called a scumbag or a slimy ne'er do well. Or both.
I don't understand what you said.... Is your quoting messed up?
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The Unrepentant Misanthrope
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Asaurus
Dec 11 2012, 07:31 AM
Quote:
 
titanoceratops
Dec 11 2012, 07:30 AM
Asaurus
Dec 11 2012, 06:44 AM
Quote:
 
So does that automatically mean you would be better off with a dolphin or a dog or a cat? IMO not really. You still can't really talk to them, make friends with them or anything else you can do with a fellow human being. There's a reason why people make friends; that's so they don't talk to themselves, inanimate objects, or animals that can't respond to you, but a fellow human can. If you were to spend a long time talking to an animal or inanimate object you would eventually go insane.

IMNSH opinion yes truly. I did spend a long time, approximately half a lifetime in fact, interacting with certain of my fellow humans and I almost DID go insane, my medical records attest to that.
But I don't see how you would fare any better around animals though. That's my point when I was arguing with you. Honestly, if I spent a long time with something like a dolphin and nothing more, it would just be a matter of who I would kill first. Probably myself.

If you spent a long time with people whose priorities in life consisted of filling their bellies and emptying their balls it would just be a matter of who you would kill first. Hopefully not yourself.
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The Unrepentant Misanthrope
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Black Ice
Dec 13 2012, 05:43 AM
Quote:
 
titanoceratops
Dec 13 2012, 05:36 AM
ZetaQuetzalcoatlus
Dec 11 2012, 05:25 AM


Quote:
 
Don't even get me started on the people who kill animals (Leopards, Minks, Wolves, Jaguars) for their fur...

I won't. Because if I do you'll state a few unpalatable (to speciesists) facts and wind up being called a scumbag or a slimy ne'er do well. Or both.
I don't understand what you said.... Is your quoting messed up?

Just giving ZetaQuetzalcoatlus some friendly advice.
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