Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Carnivora. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Do you believe animals are equal to humans?
Topic Started: Dec 10 2012, 11:41 AM (15,914 Views)
The Unrepentant Misanthrope
Autotrophic Organism
[ *  * ]
Wild Dog
Dec 11 2012, 10:17 AM
Quote:
 
IMO I think animals should be given certain unalienable rights and what not to prevent them from being abused but when it comes down to it I have to say I lean towards valuing human life a bit more. don't get me wrong I'd rather have every serial killer, oppressive dictator, or victoriously abusive husband killed instead of several hundred African wild dogs, but I can't be the judge of people.

Why not? People take it upon themselves to judge non-humans all the time.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
The Unrepentant Misanthrope
Autotrophic Organism
[ *  * ]
Asaurus
Dec 11 2012, 10:48 AM
Quote:
 
Ok, I agree that it should be based on an individual, but there are some nuts out there who don't care who the person is. PETA literally said they value lab rats over the millions of children with cancer, AIDS, etc. They don't care if animal experimentation will save human lives, the only species of animal they don't care about is Homo sapiens. And don't even get me started on that blasted Voluntary Human Extinction Movement. THEY truly are monsters.

If you want to save human lives start lobbying for the experiments to be carried out on the subhuman scum cluttering up prisons all over the world and living the good life at taxpayers expense. As for the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement I am by default a member, given that I have never reproduced and will not seek or accept treatment for my potentially fatal condition. Do you then truly consider me a monster?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
The Unrepentant Misanthrope
Autotrophic Organism
[ *  * ]
k9boy
Dec 12 2012, 05:05 PM
Quote:
 
Vita
Dec 12 2012, 04:37 PM

If someone offered me to get rid of any animal, I'd do so, even if it was my own.
Wow. You would kill your own dog for money? Thats low.

Quite frankly I am undecided on this. My pet is one very well treated animal, think of how much benefit a billion dollars would be to animal welfare charities.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
The Unrepentant Misanthrope
Autotrophic Organism
[ *  * ]
Asaurus
Dec 13 2012, 05:36 AM
Quote:
 
titanoceratops
Dec 13 2012, 02:21 AM
Random ramblings:
Thanks to my health issues I have not been able to keep up with the rest of you so I shall briefly summarise as follows:
For a start the title of this debate is utterly meaningless, one might as well ask if you believe animals are equal to okapis?
Fishfreak. If the guy throwing up on me in my house was a home invader I would have no compunction about killing him, indeed I would consider myself to have done society a favour.
Fragillimus335. No one is saying that they "would pick up a gun, and blow a little girl's brains out to save a pod of dolphins". Don't twist other people's words in order to score points, it's dishonest to say the least.
Wild Dog. I would not kill the decent family man under any circumstances.
Fishfreak. If said person was Sadistic Sarah Palin, Michael Vick, George W(anker) Bush, Ken Salazar, either of the Cock brothers or anyone else of similar persuasion, definitely yes, I'll take the invertebrates every time.
Brolyeuphyfusion. "Vermln" is a highly loaded and pejorative term without meaning.
Fragillimus335. If this forum is for people who like animals then WTF are you doing here?
Aside to Asaurus. You have me totally confused, are you (like me) bipolar? Or twins perhaps?
My view is that, I would mostly value a human over an animal, but in some circumstances it would be the other way around.

I can respect that view.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ausar
Member Avatar
Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
titanoceratops
Dec 13 2012, 06:27 AM
Asaurus
Dec 11 2012, 10:48 AM
Quote:
 
Ok, I agree that it should be based on an individual, but there are some nuts out there who don't care who the person is. PETA literally said they value lab rats over the millions of children with cancer, AIDS, etc. They don't care if animal experimentation will save human lives, the only species of animal they don't care about is Homo sapiens. And don't even get me started on that blasted Voluntary Human Extinction Movement. THEY truly are monsters.

If you want to save human lives start lobbying for the experiments to be carried out on the subhuman scum cluttering up prisons all over the world and living the good life at taxpayers expense. As for the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement I am by default a member, given that I have never reproduced and will not seek or accept treatment for my potentially fatal condition. Do you then truly consider me a monster?
How could you advocate the extinction of your OWN species? If those people are bitching about the fact that they're human (subhuman in my eyes), they can just take off their clothes, go live in the wild, and screech like monkeys for all I care. If you really advocate the extinction of your own species, then yes, I would consider you a monster.
Edited by Ausar, Dec 13 2012, 07:36 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
The Unrepentant Misanthrope
Autotrophic Organism
[ *  * ]
Asaurus
Dec 13 2012, 07:31 AM
Quote:
 
titanoceratops
Dec 13 2012, 06:27 AM
Asaurus
Dec 11 2012, 10:48 AM
Quote:
 
Ok, I agree that it should be based on an individual, but there are some nuts out there who don't care who the person is. PETA literally said they value lab rats over the millions of children with cancer, AIDS, etc. They don't care if animal experimentation will save human lives, the only species of animal they don't care about is Homo sapiens. And don't even get me started on that blasted Voluntary Human Extinction Movement. THEY truly are monsters.

If you want to save human lives start lobbying for the experiments to be carried out on the subhuman scum cluttering up prisons all over the world and living the good life at taxpayers expense. As for the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement I am by default a member, given that I have never reproduced and will not seek or accept treatment for my potentially fatal condition. Do you then truly consider me a monster?
How could you advocate the extinction of your OWN species? If those people are bitching about the fact that they're human (subhuman in my eyes), they can just take off their clothes, go live in the wild, and screech like monkeys for all I care. If you really advocate the extinction of your own species, then yes, I would consider you a monster.

Given the abuse that humans have subjected animals, including their own species, to plus the deliberate environmental abuses they continually inflict on the earth, I have NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER in advocating the extinction of my OWN species and THE SOONER THE FCKNG THE BETTER. And I'll take being a monster over a stinking speciesist EVERY TIME.
Earth first!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Red Dog


Asaurus
Dec 13 2012, 05:34 AM
Reddhole
Dec 13 2012, 03:10 AM
The whole premise of this thread is silly. The idea that people are treating animals in general better than other humans is absurd. Cruelty and persecution of animals is widespread. For example, as far as I know no government policies call for "harvesting" 30%-50% of human populations and say do not worry cause the population will not go extinct.

Also, the idea that people should let animals suffer cause people need help is ridiculous. Different things motivate different people and if someone wants to spend their time and money doing good then that should be encouraged. Its not like if they didn't help animals they would help other people. Most likely they would just watch TV or do whatever they normally do. Most people who do good for animals are generally much more compassionate to other people than the average person in my experience. On the other hand, people who persecute or commit cruelty to animals tend to be less caring for other people. For example, serial killers often start torturing animals and most hunters (especially predator hunters) tend to be pretty opposed to helping poor and downtrodden people. Obviously, there are exceptions to these rules.

That being said, I'm not opposed to hunting of prey species since most modern ecosystems evolved with humans hunting. However, amounts taken should not be excessive and be roughly equivalent to what early humans took with limited technology. Still, I do think a lot of modern hunting techniques, such as advanced weapon technology, baiting, calling, etc., are unsporting and should be banned.

Reddhole, all I want to know is if you believe animals should be treated the way we treat humans.
That is an asinine question.

Who cares if you value an animal as much as a person? If you care little about both, does it really matter if you treat one similarly as another? You can claim a serial killer "cares" more for humans since they usually started off with animals and took longer to jump to humans. Similarly, you can claim some Peta member "cares" more for animals than people, but is really giving to other people. Does that mean the serial killer is better to leave your daughter with in the wilderness?

The whole premise of this thread is if you care for an animal you don't care for humans and vice versa. This IMHO is absurd.
Edited by Red Dog, Dec 13 2012, 08:34 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Palaeogirl
Member Avatar
Omnivore
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
I personally favour the life of other species over humans, simply because we outnumber nearly every other species by a gigantic margin. I think that Homo sapiens going extinct would actually be extremely good for the world as a whole, and would kill us off knowing that it would permit life to go on uninterrupted. I do know how unlikely that is though. Once we seriously start damaging the environment on a global scale, we need to go. We are equal, though. I won't say that non-humans are better, nothing is better, but I feel as though Earth would be better off without us.
Edited by Palaeogirl, Dec 13 2012, 08:40 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ausar
Member Avatar
Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Reddhole
Dec 13 2012, 08:31 AM
Asaurus
Dec 13 2012, 05:34 AM
Reddhole
Dec 13 2012, 03:10 AM
The whole premise of this thread is silly. The idea that people are treating animals in general better than other humans is absurd. Cruelty and persecution of animals is widespread. For example, as far as I know no government policies call for "harvesting" 30%-50% of human populations and say do not worry cause the population will not go extinct.

Also, the idea that people should let animals suffer cause people need help is ridiculous. Different things motivate different people and if someone wants to spend their time and money doing good then that should be encouraged. Its not like if they didn't help animals they would help other people. Most likely they would just watch TV or do whatever they normally do. Most people who do good for animals are generally much more compassionate to other people than the average person in my experience. On the other hand, people who persecute or commit cruelty to animals tend to be less caring for other people. For example, serial killers often start torturing animals and most hunters (especially predator hunters) tend to be pretty opposed to helping poor and downtrodden people. Obviously, there are exceptions to these rules.

That being said, I'm not opposed to hunting of prey species since most modern ecosystems evolved with humans hunting. However, amounts taken should not be excessive and be roughly equivalent to what early humans took with limited technology. Still, I do think a lot of modern hunting techniques, such as advanced weapon technology, baiting, calling, etc., are unsporting and should be banned.

Reddhole, all I want to know is if you believe animals should be treated the way we treat humans.
That is an asinine question.

Who cares if you value an animal as much as a person? If you care little about both, does it really matter if you treat one similarly as another? You can claim a serial killer "cares" more for humans since they usually started off with animals and took longer to jump to humans. Similarly, you can claim some Peta member "cares" more for animals than people, but is really giving to other people. Does that mean the serial killer is better to leave your daughter with in the wilderness?

The whole premise of this thread is if you care for an animal you don't care for humans and vice versa. This IMHO is absurd.
I thought you'd be interested in a thread like this since I've seen you comment on threads concerning animal welfare. Apparently not. But if you don't care, that's fine by me. There are plenty of other people that do.
Edited by Ausar, Dec 13 2012, 09:02 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ausar
Member Avatar
Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Swarmlord2012
Dec 13 2012, 08:39 AM
I personally favour the life of other species over humans, simply because we outnumber nearly every other species by a gigantic margin. I think that Homo sapiens going extinct would actually be extremely good for the world as a whole, and would kill us off knowing that it would permit life to go on uninterrupted. I do know how unlikely that is though. Once we seriously start damaging the environment on a global scale, we need to go. We are equal, though. I won't say that non-humans are better, nothing is better, but I feel as though Earth would be better off without us.
There are creatures in this world that outnumber humans by a HUGE margin. So not "nearly every other species". More like just plain old some.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
The Unrepentant Misanthrope
Autotrophic Organism
[ *  * ]
Swarmlord2012
Dec 13 2012, 08:39 AM
Quote:
 
Quote:
 
I personally favour the life of other species over humans, simply because we outnumber nearly every other species by a gigantic margin. I think that Homo sapiens going extinct would actually be extremely good for the world as a whole, and would kill us off knowing that it would permit life to go on uninterrupted. I do know how unlikely that is though. Once we seriously start damaging the environment on a global scale, we need to go. We are equal, though. I won't say that non-humans are better, nothing is better, but I feel as though Earth would be better off without us.

My sentiments exactly.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ausar
Member Avatar
Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
titanoceratops
Dec 13 2012, 08:17 AM
Asaurus
Dec 13 2012, 07:31 AM
Quote:
 
titanoceratops
Dec 13 2012, 06:27 AM
Asaurus
Dec 11 2012, 10:48 AM
Quote:
 
Ok, I agree that it should be based on an individual, but there are some nuts out there who don't care who the person is. PETA literally said they value lab rats over the millions of children with cancer, AIDS, etc. They don't care if animal experimentation will save human lives, the only species of animal they don't care about is Homo sapiens. And don't even get me started on that blasted Voluntary Human Extinction Movement. THEY truly are monsters.

If you want to save human lives start lobbying for the experiments to be carried out on the subhuman scum cluttering up prisons all over the world and living the good life at taxpayers expense. As for the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement I am by default a member, given that I have never reproduced and will not seek or accept treatment for my potentially fatal condition. Do you then truly consider me a monster?
How could you advocate the extinction of your OWN species? If those people are bitching about the fact that they're human (subhuman in my eyes), they can just take off their clothes, go live in the wild, and screech like monkeys for all I care. If you really advocate the extinction of your own species, then yes, I would consider you a monster.

Given the abuse that humans have subjected animals, including their own species, to plus the deliberate environmental abuses they continually inflict on the earth, I have NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER in advocating the extinction of my OWN species and THE SOONER THE FCKNG THE BETTER. And I'll take being a monster over a stinking speciesist EVERY TIME.
Earth first!
I can respect that.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
The Unrepentant Misanthrope
Autotrophic Organism
[ *  * ]
Swarmlord2012
Dec 13 2012, 08:39 AM
I personally favour the life of other species over humans, simply because we outnumber nearly every other species by a gigantic margin. I think that Homo sapiens going extinct would actually be extremely good for the world as a whole, and would kill us off knowing that it would permit life to go on uninterrupted. I do know how unlikely that is though. Once we seriously start damaging the environment on a global scale, we need to go. We are equal, though. I won't say that non-humans are better, nothing is better, but I feel as though Earth would be better off without us.
There are creatures in this world that outnumber humans by a HUGE margin. So not "nearly every other species". More like just plain old some.[/quote]
And do any of these engage in deliberate campaigns of extermination against other species? Do they set out to deliberately destroy the biosphere?[/quote]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ausar
Member Avatar
Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
titanoceratops
Dec 13 2012, 09:04 AM
Swarmlord2012
Dec 13 2012, 08:39 AM
I personally favour the life of other species over humans, simply because we outnumber nearly every other species by a gigantic margin. I think that Homo sapiens going extinct would actually be extremely good for the world as a whole, and would kill us off knowing that it would permit life to go on uninterrupted. I do know how unlikely that is though. Once we seriously start damaging the environment on a global scale, we need to go. We are equal, though. I won't say that non-humans are better, nothing is better, but I feel as though Earth would be better off without us.
There are creatures in this world that outnumber humans by a HUGE margin. So not "nearly every other species". More like just plain old some.

And do any of these engage in deliberate campaigns of extermination against other species? Do they set out to deliberately destroy the biosphere?[/quote][/quote]

Some do kill a lot of humans, ie: mosquitoes.
Edited by Ausar, Dec 13 2012, 09:34 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
The Unrepentant Misanthrope
Autotrophic Organism
[ *  * ]
Asaurus
Dec 13 2012, 09:34 AM
Quote:
 
titanoceratops
Dec 13 2012, 09:04 AM
Swarmlord2012
Dec 13 2012, 08:39 AM
I personally favour the life of other species over humans, simply because we outnumber nearly every other species by a gigantic margin. I think that Homo sapiens going extinct would actually be extremely good for the world as a whole, and would kill us off knowing that it would permit life to go on uninterrupted. I do know how unlikely that is though. Once we seriously start damaging the environment on a global scale, we need to go. We are equal, though. I won't say that non-humans are better, nothing is better, but I feel as though Earth would be better off without us.
There are creatures in this world that outnumber humans by a HUGE margin. So not "nearly every other species". More like just plain old some.

And do any of these engage in deliberate campaigns of extermination against other species? Do they set out to deliberately destroy the biosphere?


Some do kill a lot of humans, ie: mosquitoes.[/quote]
But not deliberately and with malice aforethought.[/quote]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Create a free forum in seconds.
Learn More · Sign-up for Free
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Zoological Debate & Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply