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| Saurophaganax maximus v Tyrannosaurus rex | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 15 2012, 10:02 PM (59,188 Views) | |
| DinosaurMichael | Dec 15 2012, 10:02 PM Post #1 |
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Apex Predator
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Saurophaganax maximus Saurophaganax ("lizard-eating master") is a genus of allosaurid dinosaur from the Morrison Formation of Late Jurassic Oklahoma (latest Kimmeridgian age, about 151 million years ago). Some paleontologists consider it to be a species of Allosaurus (A. maximus). Saurophaganax represents a very large (13 metres (43 ft) long). Saurophaganax was one of the largest carnivores of Late Jurassic North America. Ray even gave an estimate of the body length of fifteen metres and Chure of fourteen, though later estimations have been lower. The fossils known of Saurophaganax (both the possible New Mexican material and the Oklahoma material) are known from the latest part of the Morrison formation, suggesting that they were either always uncommon or appeared rather late in the fossil record. Saurophaganax was large for an allosaurid, and bigger than both its contemporaries Torvosaurus tanneri and Allosaurus fragilis. Being much rarer than its contemporaries, making up one percent or less of the Morrison theropod fauna, not much about its behavior is known. Stovall in Oklahoma also unearthed a considerable number of Apatosaurus specimens, a possible prey for a large theropod. ![]() Tyrannosaurus rex Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.
Edited by DinosaurMichael, Dec 15 2012, 10:02 PM.
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| Megalosauroid | Aug 9 2013, 07:16 AM Post #361 | |||||||||||||||||||||
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Autotrophic Organism
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Tyrannosaurus would have won if both dinosaurs met, it was heavier and had a stronger body build. Saurophaganax, being relatively lightly built was not the best match for large Tyrannosaurids or Carcharodontosaurids, except perhaps Acrocanthosaurus due to its relatively small skull
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| theropod | Aug 10 2013, 01:12 AM Post #362 | |||||||||||||||||||||
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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Pound for pound it's not stronger, it's stronger because it's heavier. |
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| SpinoInWonderland | Aug 10 2013, 01:23 AM Post #363 | |||||||||||||||||||||
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The madness has come back...
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If we use the average Tyrannosaurus, it won't be heavier than a ~13-meter Saurophaganax. A ~13-meter Saurophaganax would be close to Sue-sized(~9200 liters) based on scaling from the best estimate of the volumetric model of Big Al. Using some of the other models, Saurophaganax would turn out more massive than any known Tyrannosaurus. I won't use the contracted ribcage or the -7.5% for calculating the size of Saurophaganax, because larger animals are generally more robust. This can also justify the use of the +7.5% model, but I'm gonna stick to the best estimate model variants here. Even within individuals of the same species, larger individuals are generally more robust. EDIT: MOR 693 estimates: Best estimate model Volume: 1607 liters Mass: 1500.91 kilograms Best estimate model of MOR 693 with +15% tail and -7.5% neck and thorax Volume: 1652 liters Mass: 1511.63 kilograms Best estimate model of MOR 693 with +11.25% tail and -7.5% neck and thorax Volume: 1623 liters Mass: 1482.26 kilograms Best estimate model of MOR 693 with -7.5% tail and +11.25% neck and thorax Volume: 1751 liters Mass: 1611.54 kilograms Best estimate model of MOR 693 with an enlarged rib cage Volume: 1713 liters Mass: 1564.44 kilograms Source: How Big Was 'Big Al'? Quantifying the effect of soft tissue and osteological unknowns on mass predictions for Allosaurus (Dinosauria:Theropoda)
You aren't forced to believe it, and feel free to disagree. But I have the right to my opinion. Edited by SpinoInWonderland, May 29 2015, 03:34 PM.
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| retic | Aug 10 2013, 01:58 AM Post #364 | |||||||||||||||||||||
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snake and dinosaur enthusiast
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at upper estimates i would back saurophaganax since it had the deadly axe bite as well as much larger arms with large claws. | |||||||||||||||||||||
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| SpinoInWonderland | Aug 10 2013, 02:31 AM Post #365 | |||||||||||||||||||||
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The madness has come back...
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~11.5-meter Saurophaganax loses 70% ~13-meter Saurophaganax wins 70% |
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| Jinfengopteryx | Aug 10 2013, 02:47 AM Post #366 | |||||||||||||||||||||
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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You could still make estimates with the 1,4 t model, to get a full range, I got quite exactly 7 t (I think I posted the calculation in the Mapusaurus vs Saurophaganax thread). | |||||||||||||||||||||
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| SpinoInWonderland | Aug 10 2013, 02:55 AM Post #367 | |||||||||||||||||||||
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The madness has come back...
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Maybe soon, but I won't be going by those estimates because, well, larger animals usually get more robust and bulkier. |
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| Jinfengopteryx | Aug 10 2013, 02:58 AM Post #368 | |||||||||||||||||||||
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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The estimates in the 9 t range don't look likely to me either. | |||||||||||||||||||||
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| SpinoInWonderland | Aug 10 2013, 03:05 AM Post #369 | |||||||||||||||||||||
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The madness has come back...
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To each his own. |
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| Teratophoneus | Sep 4 2013, 11:23 PM Post #370 | |||||||||||||||||||||
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Herbivore
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Saurophaganax lose at 70-75 % imo. T.rex is simply much bigger (5 t v 8 t). Edited by Teratophoneus, Sep 4 2013, 11:25 PM.
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| SpinoInWonderland | Sep 5 2013, 06:16 PM Post #371 | |||||||||||||||||||||
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The madness has come back...
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Wow, using low estimates for one while using the largest known specimen for the other, I can play that game too. ~8.5-tonne, ~13-meter Saurophaganax easily destroys the ~10-meter, ~4-tonne Tyrannosaurus |
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| Teratophoneus | Sep 5 2013, 07:02 PM Post #372 | |||||||||||||||||||||
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Herbivore
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Actually both were the largest specimens of each species... |
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| Jinfengopteryx | Sep 5 2013, 11:46 PM Post #373 | |||||||||||||||||||||
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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He said low estimate, not small specimen. Anyway, there are lower weight estimates for Saurophaganax (like the one made by Paul). | |||||||||||||||||||||
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| Teratophoneus | Sep 6 2013, 12:39 AM Post #374 | |||||||||||||||||||||
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Herbivore
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5 t isn't low for a 38 feet Saurophaganax. |
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| Jinfengopteryx | Sep 6 2013, 12:50 AM Post #375 | |||||||||||||||||||||
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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The weight estimate is not unrealistic for that length, but for him the 38 ft estimate is a low estimate too (I don't quite agree with it, I just wanted to clarify his point of view). | |||||||||||||||||||||
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