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Saurophaganax maximus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Dec 15 2012, 10:02 PM (59,188 Views)
DinosaurMichael
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Saurophaganax maximus
Saurophaganax ("lizard-eating master") is a genus of allosaurid dinosaur from the Morrison Formation of Late Jurassic Oklahoma (latest Kimmeridgian age, about 151 million years ago). Some paleontologists consider it to be a species of Allosaurus (A. maximus). Saurophaganax represents a very large (13 metres (43 ft) long). Saurophaganax was one of the largest carnivores of Late Jurassic North America. Ray even gave an estimate of the body length of fifteen metres and Chure of fourteen, though later estimations have been lower. The fossils known of Saurophaganax (both the possible New Mexican material and the Oklahoma material) are known from the latest part of the Morrison formation, suggesting that they were either always uncommon or appeared rather late in the fossil record. Saurophaganax was large for an allosaurid, and bigger than both its contemporaries Torvosaurus tanneri and Allosaurus fragilis. Being much rarer than its contemporaries, making up one percent or less of the Morrison theropod fauna, not much about its behavior is known. Stovall in Oklahoma also unearthed a considerable number of Apatosaurus specimens, a possible prey for a large theropod.

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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Edited by DinosaurMichael, Dec 15 2012, 10:02 PM.
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Megalosauroid
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DinosaurMichael
Dec 15 2012, 10:02 PM
Saurophaganax maximus
Saurophaganax ("lizard-eating master") is a genus of allosaurid dinosaur from the Morrison Formation of Late Jurassic Oklahoma (latest Kimmeridgian age, about 151 million years ago). Some paleontologists consider it to be a species of Allosaurus (A. maximus). Saurophaganax represents a very large (13 metres (43 ft) long). Saurophaganax was one of the largest carnivores of Late Jurassic North America. Ray even gave an estimate of the body length of fifteen metres and Chure of fourteen, though later estimations have been lower. The fossils known of Saurophaganax (both the possible New Mexican material and the Oklahoma material) are known from the latest part of the Morrison formation, suggesting that they were either always uncommon or appeared rather late in the fossil record. Saurophaganax was large for an allosaurid, and bigger than both its contemporaries Torvosaurus tanneri and Allosaurus fragilis. Being much rarer than its contemporaries, making up one percent or less of the Morrison theropod fauna, not much about its behavior is known. Stovall in Oklahoma also unearthed a considerable number of Apatosaurus specimens, a possible prey for a large theropod.

Posted Image

Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Tyrannosaurus would have won if both dinosaurs met, it was heavier and had a stronger body build.
Saurophaganax, being relatively lightly built was not the best match for large Tyrannosaurids or Carcharodontosaurids, except perhaps Acrocanthosaurus due to its relatively small skull rolleyes
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theropod
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Aug 7 2013, 10:40 AM
I think Tyrannosaurus could win against a 13 meter Saurophaganax. Close, but Rex is pound for pound the stronger animal. If Saurophaganax could avoid the T. rex's jaws with its speed and agility it wins but there's a 50-55% chance Tyrannosaurus could pull out the win IMO. Sauro wouldn't go down easy at all though and could win a good portion of the time.
Pound for pound it's not stronger, it's stronger because it's heavier.
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SpinoInWonderland
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If we use the average Tyrannosaurus, it won't be heavier than a ~13-meter Saurophaganax.

A ~13-meter Saurophaganax would be close to Sue-sized(~9200 liters) based on scaling from the best estimate of the volumetric model of Big Al.

Using some of the other models, Saurophaganax would turn out more massive than any known Tyrannosaurus.

I won't use the contracted ribcage or the -7.5% for calculating the size of Saurophaganax, because larger animals are generally more robust. This can also justify the use of the +7.5% model, but I'm gonna stick to the best estimate model variants here.

Even within individuals of the same species, larger individuals are generally more robust.


EDIT:

MOR 693 estimates:

Best estimate model

Volume: 1607 liters

Mass: 1500.91 kilograms

Best estimate model of MOR 693 with +15% tail and -7.5% neck and thorax

Volume: 1652 liters

Mass: 1511.63 kilograms

Best estimate model of MOR 693 with +11.25% tail and -7.5% neck and thorax

Volume: 1623 liters

Mass: 1482.26 kilograms

Best estimate model of MOR 693 with -7.5% tail and +11.25% neck and thorax

Volume: 1751 liters

Mass: 1611.54 kilograms

Best estimate model of MOR 693 with an enlarged rib cage

Volume: 1713 liters

Mass: 1564.44 kilograms

Source: How Big Was 'Big Al'? Quantifying the effect of soft tissue and osteological unknowns on mass predictions for Allosaurus (Dinosauria:Theropoda)


Saurophaganax mass and volume calculations
Model (MOR 693, ~7.3 meters)~11.5 meters~13 meters
Best estimate model~6282.6 liters
~5867.9 kilograms
~9075.6 liters
~8476.5 kilograms
Best estimate model with +15% tail and -7.5% neck and thorax~6458.6 liters
~5909.8 kilograms
~9329.8 liters
~8537 kilograms
Best estimate model with +11.25% tail and -7.5% neck and thorax~6345.2 liters
~5795 kilograms
~9166 liters
~8371.2 kilograms
Best estimate model with -7.5% tail and +11.25% neck and thorax~6845.6 liters
~6300.4 kilograms
~9888.9 liters
~9101.3 kilograms
Best estimate model with an enlarged rib cage~6697 liters
~6116.23 kilograms
~9674.3 liters
~8835.3 kilograms


You aren't forced to believe it, and feel free to disagree. But I have the right to my opinion.
Edited by SpinoInWonderland, May 29 2015, 03:34 PM.
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retic
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at upper estimates i would back saurophaganax since it had the deadly axe bite as well as much larger arms with large claws.
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SpinoInWonderland
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~11.5-meter Saurophaganax loses 70%
~13-meter Saurophaganax wins 70%
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Jinfengopteryx
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You could still make estimates with the 1,4 t model, to get a full range, I got quite exactly 7 t (I think I posted the calculation in the Mapusaurus vs Saurophaganax thread).
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SpinoInWonderland
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Jinfengopteryx
Aug 10 2013, 02:47 AM
You could still make estimates with the 1,4 t model, to get a full range, I got quite exactly 7 t (I think I posted the calculation in the Mapusaurus vs Saurophaganax thread).
Maybe soon, but I won't be going by those estimates because, well, larger animals usually get more robust and bulkier.
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Jinfengopteryx
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The estimates in the 9 t range don't look likely to me either.
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SpinoInWonderland
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Jinfengopteryx
Aug 10 2013, 02:58 AM
The estimates in the 9 t range don't look likely to me either.
To each his own.
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Teratophoneus
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Saurophaganax lose at 70-75 % imo. T.rex is simply much bigger (5 t v 8 t).

Edited by Teratophoneus, Sep 4 2013, 11:25 PM.
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SpinoInWonderland
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Teratophoneus
Sep 4 2013, 11:23 PM
Saurophaganax lose at 70-75 % imo. T.rex is simply much bigger (5 t v 8 t).

Wow, using low estimates for one while using the largest known specimen for the other, I can play that game too.

~8.5-tonne, ~13-meter Saurophaganax easily destroys the ~10-meter, ~4-tonne Tyrannosaurus
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Teratophoneus
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SpinoInWonderland
Sep 5 2013, 06:16 PM
Teratophoneus
Sep 4 2013, 11:23 PM
Saurophaganax lose at 70-75 % imo. T.rex is simply much bigger (5 t v 8 t).

Wow, using low estimates for one while using the largest known specimen for the other, I can play that game too.

~8.5-tonne, ~13-meter Saurophaganax easily destroys the ~10-meter, ~4-tonne Tyrannosaurus
Actually both were the largest specimens of each species...
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Jinfengopteryx
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He said low estimate, not small specimen. Anyway, there are lower weight estimates for Saurophaganax (like the one made by Paul).
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Teratophoneus
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Jinfengopteryx
Sep 5 2013, 11:46 PM
He said low estimate, not small specimen. Anyway, there are lower weight estimates for Saurophaganax (like the one made by Paul).
5 t isn't low for a 38 feet Saurophaganax.
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Jinfengopteryx
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The weight estimate is not unrealistic for that length, but for him the 38 ft estimate is a low estimate too (I don't quite agree with it, I just wanted to clarify his point of view).
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