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Saurophaganax maximus v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Dec 15 2012, 10:02 PM (59,187 Views)
DinosaurMichael
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Saurophaganax maximus
Saurophaganax ("lizard-eating master") is a genus of allosaurid dinosaur from the Morrison Formation of Late Jurassic Oklahoma (latest Kimmeridgian age, about 151 million years ago). Some paleontologists consider it to be a species of Allosaurus (A. maximus). Saurophaganax represents a very large (13 metres (43 ft) long). Saurophaganax was one of the largest carnivores of Late Jurassic North America. Ray even gave an estimate of the body length of fifteen metres and Chure of fourteen, though later estimations have been lower. The fossils known of Saurophaganax (both the possible New Mexican material and the Oklahoma material) are known from the latest part of the Morrison formation, suggesting that they were either always uncommon or appeared rather late in the fossil record. Saurophaganax was large for an allosaurid, and bigger than both its contemporaries Torvosaurus tanneri and Allosaurus fragilis. Being much rarer than its contemporaries, making up one percent or less of the Morrison theropod fauna, not much about its behavior is known. Stovall in Oklahoma also unearthed a considerable number of Apatosaurus specimens, a possible prey for a large theropod.

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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Edited by DinosaurMichael, Dec 15 2012, 10:02 PM.
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Teratophoneus
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Jinfengopteryx
Sep 6 2013, 12:50 AM
The weight estimate is not unrealistic for that length, but for him the 38 ft estimate is a low estimate too (I don't quite agree with it, I just wanted to clarify his point of view).
But as he has stated:

Quote:
 
To each his own.
Edited by Teratophoneus, Sep 6 2013, 01:01 AM.
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thesporerex
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SpinoInWonderland
Sep 5 2013, 06:16 PM
Teratophoneus
Sep 4 2013, 11:23 PM
Saurophaganax lose at 70-75 % imo. T.rex is simply much bigger (5 t v 8 t).

Wow, using low estimates for one while using the largest known specimen for the other, I can play that game too.

~8.5-tonne, ~13-meter Saurophaganax easily destroys the ~10-meter, ~4-tonne Tyrannosaurus
Saurophaganax was never 13 metres and never 8.5 tons, That makes saurophaganax heavier than the 13.2 metre giganotosaurus even when that giganotosaurus is 0.2 metres longer and much bulkier than the much very gracile allosaur.
Edited by thesporerex, Sep 7 2013, 01:44 AM.
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theropod
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^That's one of the reasons why I prefer the contracted ribcage model which will yield something ~7,3t at 13m and ~5t at 11,5t. This sounds more realistic when compared to other theropods of similar lenght, and makes it lighter than a Giganotosaurus of equal lenght (which would be 7,8t based on Hartman) and the same weight as a shorter T. rex with an adjusted density.

We should keep in mind the one that potentially reaches 13m (or perhaps just 11,5m) is the largest of at least 4. Saurophaganax has to be reckoned with, but it is not clear whether it is match.

At the upper end of its size range it definitely is.
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Jinfengopteryx
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theropod
Sep 7 2013, 03:53 AM
^That's one of the reasons why I prefer the contracted ribcage model which will yield something ~7,3t at 13m and ~5t at 11,5t.
Or quite exactly 7 t when you calculate it like I did (I think 13 m is rounded up, because when scaling from Big Al, I got something like 12,8 m, what does the typotype yield btw?).
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theropod
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The topotype going by Mortimer's figures (7,4m TL and 31cm humerus) yields 11,6-13m for the humerus ().
It's not entirely sure how long Big Al is, I think reconstructions show varying tail lenghts (making it somewhere between 7 and 8m long). But we can use the humerus to scale here too, which is 1,535-1,714 times bigger. We don't need to incorporate the lenght for a weight estimate, but it's about 11,5-12,9m for 7,5m (and a few more cm for a 55cm humerus like the one seen in Chure's 1995 drawing), and you're right, it yields nearly exactly 7t.

That figure still fits nicely for either upper end, and the lower end would be ~5t.
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Tyrannoceratospinosaurus Rex
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I say 50/50. Rexy might have the stronger bite but Saurophaganax has both claws and jaws.
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Spinodontosaurus
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Full size version.

That's a 4-tonne Saurophaganax right there. You could probably squeeze it up to 5 tonnes by using MOR 693 ('Big Al') as a basis for scaling instead of DINO 2560, but either way it would be badly outmatched by an 8 tonne Tyrannosaurus like Sue there.
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Hatzegopteryx
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Tyrannoceratospinosaurus Rex
Jan 21 2014, 04:51 AM
I say 50/50. Rexy might have the stronger bite but Saurophaganax has both claws and jaws.
T. rex had a stronger bite but a smaller gape
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Carcharadon
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Tyrannosaurus is the clear winner here imo going by spinodontosaurus's comparison.
Edited by Carcharadon, Jan 21 2014, 07:55 AM.
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Hatzegopteryx
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Tyrannosaurus will win more often than not, it is already much bulkier and dimentionally larger according to Spinodontosaurus' comparison, thus meaning T. rex has a great size advantage, since length and height are two-dimensional measurements.
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Ausar
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Spinodontosaurus
Jan 21 2014, 07:24 AM
Posted Image
Full size version.

That's a 4-tonne Saurophaganax right there. You could probably squeeze it up to 5 tonnes by using MOR 693 ('Big Al') as a basis for scaling instead of DINO 2560, but either way it would be badly outmatched by an 8 tonne Tyrannosaurus like Sue there.
Yep, Sue's more than twice the weight.

But that's using a large T.rex specimen, though an average T.rex still has a notable weight advantage to Saurophaganax.

Perhaps we can use a rather small (3.8t) T.rex specimen to make this less one sided?
Edited by Ausar, Jan 22 2014, 08:21 AM.
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Tyrannoceratospinosaurus Rex
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Spinodontosaurus
Jan 21 2014, 07:24 AM
Posted Image
Full size version.

That's a 4-tonne Saurophaganax right there. You could probably squeeze it up to 5 tonnes by using MOR 693 ('Big Al') as a basis for scaling instead of DINO 2560, but either way it would be badly outmatched by an 8 tonne Tyrannosaurus like Sue there.
Looks like Sauro's going down. How long is this Sauro?
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Jinfengopteryx
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Looks like roughly 11 m to me.
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Ceratodromeus
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Rex is bigger, no doubt( i'm new just so ya know) but Saurophagonax is a bit too fragmentary to even decide it's skull function, yes?
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Hatzegopteryx
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Jinfengopteryx
Jan 22 2014, 05:16 AM
Looks like roughly 11 m to me.
Yeah it's roughly 11 metres, also congratulations on recently reachng eight thousand posts :)
Edited by Hatzegopteryx, Jan 22 2014, 08:20 AM.
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