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| Saurophaganax maximus v Tyrannosaurus rex | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 15 2012, 10:02 PM (59,205 Views) | |
| DinosaurMichael | Dec 15 2012, 10:02 PM Post #1 |
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Apex Predator
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Saurophaganax maximus Saurophaganax ("lizard-eating master") is a genus of allosaurid dinosaur from the Morrison Formation of Late Jurassic Oklahoma (latest Kimmeridgian age, about 151 million years ago). Some paleontologists consider it to be a species of Allosaurus (A. maximus). Saurophaganax represents a very large (13 metres (43 ft) long). Saurophaganax was one of the largest carnivores of Late Jurassic North America. Ray even gave an estimate of the body length of fifteen metres and Chure of fourteen, though later estimations have been lower. The fossils known of Saurophaganax (both the possible New Mexican material and the Oklahoma material) are known from the latest part of the Morrison formation, suggesting that they were either always uncommon or appeared rather late in the fossil record. Saurophaganax was large for an allosaurid, and bigger than both its contemporaries Torvosaurus tanneri and Allosaurus fragilis. Being much rarer than its contemporaries, making up one percent or less of the Morrison theropod fauna, not much about its behavior is known. Stovall in Oklahoma also unearthed a considerable number of Apatosaurus specimens, a possible prey for a large theropod. ![]() Tyrannosaurus rex Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago.[1] It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.
Edited by DinosaurMichael, Dec 15 2012, 10:02 PM.
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| MysteryMeat | Dec 18 2012, 09:46 AM Post #106 |
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Herbivore
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@Verdugo 1. I think the meter bar is a little too short. Sue is probably 12 meter flat in that Hartman walking pose, and 12.5 meterish long. 2. Sauro is longer, probably pushing 13 meter. That's how I got my 11-13 meter length speculation. Edited by MysteryMeat, Dec 18 2012, 09:48 AM.
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| Admantus | Dec 18 2012, 09:56 AM Post #107 |
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Herbivore
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*coughheightbiascough* Broly. This is like a joke that went stale years ago. Stop with the unneeded tyrannosaur hate. |
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| SpinoInWonderland | Dec 18 2012, 01:18 PM Post #108 |
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The madness has come back...
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There is no bias in that scale, I only scaled them based on how long they're stated to be and that's how they ended up And I don't hate Tyrannosaurus anymore |
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| bone crusher | Dec 18 2012, 05:12 PM Post #109 |
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Heterotrophic Organism
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Actually you don't understand what pound for pound means. A jaguar at the same weight as a leopard will be pound for pound stronger due to proportionally more heavily built and robust. An allosaurus at the same weight as t rex would be much longer and slender looking thus weaker pound for pound. Its teeth and skull by itself are decent sized if viewed by a human, but compared to a t rex it's simply a joke. |
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| theropod | Dec 19 2012, 12:17 AM Post #110 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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You mean a skull larger than that of T. rex is a joke? Because that´s the size it would be (lenghtwise of course) at the same weigths. In terms of width t. rex skull is larger of course, but that rather meatters for prey restrainment. the damage a jaw can do ought to be mainly correlated with the jaw durability, tooth morphology and the size of the toothrow. Mystery meat, your comparison reflects pretty well what I think about the sizes myself. |
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| theropod | Dec 21 2012, 04:59 AM Post #111 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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| theropod | Dec 21 2012, 05:15 AM Post #112 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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I´d be interested in Emperor T. ´s opinion on this, thus far I think he portrayed a very objective approach to these scenarios. |
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| Fragillimus335 | Dec 21 2012, 06:52 AM Post #113 |
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Omnivore
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Only the most liberal Saurophaganax has a good chance against a large Tyrannosaurus. A more average 12m, 5 ton Sauro would get stomped by Tyrannosaurus. |
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| theropod | Dec 22 2012, 03:28 AM Post #114 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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1. STRUCTURAL PERFORMANCE OF TETANURAN THEROPOD SKULLS, WITH EMPHASIS ON THE MEGALOSAURIDAE, SPINOSAURIDAE AND CARCHARODONTOSAURIDAE: http://www.academia.edu/1812192/Structural_performance_of_tetanuran_theropod_skulls_with_emphasis_on_the_Megalosauridae_Spinosauridae_and_Carcharodontosauridae EDIT: Sorry, my mistake, I mistook the Af for Allosaurus fragilis while in fact it was Afrovenator. Allosaurus wasn´t in the plots, till the paper clearly states allosaurus to have had exceptional cranial strenght, terming the skull as "overbuilt"-in a study that dealt with other theropods, so it wouldn´t have done that if it was "weak when compared to other theropods". as the models in there are 2D there might be a slight bias against animals with a mroe laterally expanded skull, but that is by far more relevant for the lateral strenght, torsional strenght and bite force than for the vertical strenght, so it appears likely that the skull of allosaurus was indeed extremely resistant in a dorsoventral direction. Edited by theropod, Dec 27 2012, 04:11 AM.
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| Temnospondyl | Dec 27 2012, 03:30 AM Post #115 |
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Stegocephalia specialist.
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saurophagonax - 14,45 m. long. Trex - 12,2 m. long. Sauro is too large |
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| theropod | Dec 27 2012, 03:53 AM Post #116 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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I think you should do better research lopho, haven´t I already told you that? |
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| Temnospondyl | Dec 27 2012, 04:45 AM Post #117 |
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Stegocephalia specialist.
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I'm doing it. In this debate there's no Lophostropheus. It's trex vs saurophagonax where I favor the allosaurid.
Edited by Temnospondyl, Dec 27 2012, 04:49 AM.
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| theropod | Dec 27 2012, 05:01 AM Post #118 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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But your size figures are wrong, that doens´t ahve anything to do with whether there are coelophysids involved or not. |
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| Temnospondyl | Dec 27 2012, 08:05 PM Post #119 |
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Stegocephalia specialist.
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I don't think that 12.2 meters are wrong length for Sue. |
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| theropod | Dec 27 2012, 09:17 PM Post #120 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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well, its 10cm too low, that´s maybe ignorable, but 14,5m is too much for Saurophaganax, it is not indicated by anything and it wasn´t ever published. I really don´t know where you got it from. Ray once published 15m which was likely exagerated, Chure published 14m, while based on a flawed metod it could be probably achieved by using the Humerus and taking into account some allometry, and estimates by Mortimer and Holtz put it at 13m. basing on the DINO specimen it could have been smaller than 12m. where on earth do you take a 14,5m figure from? |
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tell me how these teeth are "tiny"




2:26 AM Jul 14