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Where would a pack of BULLY KUTTA be ranked on the predator hieracy in India
Topic Started: Jan 18 2013, 10:06 AM (16,800 Views)
Full Throttle
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Vivec
Jul 8 2013, 05:40 AM
Full Throttle
Jul 8 2013, 04:56 AM
Vivec
Jul 8 2013, 04:39 AM
Full Throttle
Jul 8 2013, 04:19 AM
Vivec
Jul 8 2013, 04:08 AM
Single Bully Kuttas are a match for a Leopard, let alone a pack. I'd rank a small pack just below a Lion.
Singly, Bully Kuttas would only stand a chance agaist a female leopard if they had a decent size advantage, and even then it might not be enough, no domestic dog stands a real chance against an adult male leopard of similar size.
Considering the largest Bully Kuttas are around 130 pounds, I wouldn't give a female Leopard any real chance similarly against one. A Male Leopard has no real advantage either other than hunting experience and grappling, so really the dog could give the Leopard significant trouble.
From ambush, which is likely how an interaction between the two in a totally wild situation would go down, the leopard would overpower and deal out it's trademark suffocating bite before the Kutta could put up any real sort of defense, leopards and most cats in general are very capable of shutting prey down quickly given the element of surprise.

In a full frontal confrontation, a Kutta with a good size advantage over a female leopard could potentially control and overpower her, though that dog would be clawed to kingdom come afterwards.

But as to why people would back a domestic dog over a Tom leopard, no dog can match an animal that fights like this:





The Kutta would soon find itself outmaneuvered and overpowered.
Felines will have a distinctly different fighting style against each other than that of the cursorial canid.

Bully Kutta and other semi-fighting/lgd dogs will fight with similar fervor and tenacity, quickly subduing or lunging at each other

Spoiler: click to toggle


Not showing against will, it is a dog fight, with a link instead of video, for extra care.

The Leopard of any type will find significant trouble overpowering the dog without grounding itself first, an unfavourable position for the felid mostly.

At the same size I'd favour the male leopard slightly 55/45, as the Bully Kutta I do not compare pound-for-pound as impressive as other dogs, but once it gets above 135 lbs, that's when I'd usually start to assume the Kutta would give it trouble.
Firstly, I won't watch that video, I pride myself in staying as far away from dog fighting material as I can, and in all onesty I want it removed.

Secondly, a dog that weighed more than 135 pounds would likely have poorer stamina than a leaner, lighter dog, generally the optimum maximum weight for a good working dog is 120 pounds, dogs larger than that tend to suffer in the mobility and stamina department, though there are some heavier dogs who perform quite well.


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Vivec
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Full Throttle
Jul 8 2013, 05:48 AM
Vivec
Jul 8 2013, 05:40 AM
Full Throttle
Jul 8 2013, 04:56 AM
Vivec
Jul 8 2013, 04:39 AM
Full Throttle
Jul 8 2013, 04:19 AM
Vivec
Jul 8 2013, 04:08 AM
Single Bully Kuttas are a match for a Leopard, let alone a pack. I'd rank a small pack just below a Lion.
Singly, Bully Kuttas would only stand a chance agaist a female leopard if they had a decent size advantage, and even then it might not be enough, no domestic dog stands a real chance against an adult male leopard of similar size.
Considering the largest Bully Kuttas are around 130 pounds, I wouldn't give a female Leopard any real chance similarly against one. A Male Leopard has no real advantage either other than hunting experience and grappling, so really the dog could give the Leopard significant trouble.
From ambush, which is likely how an interaction between the two in a totally wild situation would go down, the leopard would overpower and deal out it's trademark suffocating bite before the Kutta could put up any real sort of defense, leopards and most cats in general are very capable of shutting prey down quickly given the element of surprise.

In a full frontal confrontation, a Kutta with a good size advantage over a female leopard could potentially control and overpower her, though that dog would be clawed to kingdom come afterwards.

But as to why people would back a domestic dog over a Tom leopard, no dog can match an animal that fights like this:





The Kutta would soon find itself outmaneuvered and overpowered.
Felines will have a distinctly different fighting style against each other than that of the cursorial canid.

Bully Kutta and other semi-fighting/lgd dogs will fight with similar fervor and tenacity, quickly subduing or lunging at each other

edit: also removed - _ -

Not showing against will, it is a dog fight, with a link instead of video, for extra care.

The Leopard of any type will find significant trouble overpowering the dog without grounding itself first, an unfavourable position for the felid mostly.

At the same size I'd favour the male leopard slightly 55/45, as the Bully Kutta I do not compare pound-for-pound as impressive as other dogs, but once it gets above 135 lbs, that's when I'd usually start to assume the Kutta would give it trouble.
Firstly, I won't watch that video, I pride myself in staying as far away from dog fighting material as I can, and in all onesty I want it removed.

Secondly, a dog that weighed more than 135 pounds would likely have poorer stamina than a leaner, lighter dog, generally the optimum maximum weight for a good working dog is 120 pounds, dogs larger than that tend to suffer in the mobility and stamina department, though there are some heavier dogs who perform quite well.


I'm only using this extreme size as an example of the natural mass these dogs can reach, obese pets would certainly weigh more, and as such be more lethargic and a bad example of the breed. I know their stamina would be a costly draw back for larger specimens. Still, considering the Leopards stamina, they would probably balance out on a meter.

Should It be mandatory that I remove the link however, I shal do so now.
Edited by Vivec, Jul 8 2013, 05:55 AM.
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Bandog
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I'd delete it zeta or taipan will delete you.
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Full Throttle
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@Vivec, you should probably get rid of that link before you get postponed or banned, honestly don't know how you can watch that, the closest I've come to watching a real staged dogfight is reading about match reports from people who have been involved in them.

Back on topic, a male leopard stands a much better chance of subduing a large dog than the other way around, whehter it be from ambush or face to face, I highly doubt that any Kutta could hold it's own against a Tom leopard even at parity, at least not for the majority of fights.

A smaller female is more debatable, nut I'd still give her good odds, and the dog will be clawed severly even if it was the victor.
Edited by Full Throttle, Jul 8 2013, 06:00 AM.
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Vivec
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Just did.

I had noted earlier that a male Leopard would dominate a Bully Kutta at parity the majority of the time, although I feel it would give it more trouble at higher weights.
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Ok, I'm not going to read into this thread since I suspect it is full of speculation. But feral dogs have always interested me.

First of all, surviving isn't about fighting. I know this is a forum for versus fights but I always assumed everyone knows this:
Animals fight rarely. They try to avoid it.

The risk of getting wounded is simply too high, you can't hunt when wounded. Though when you are a pack animal it is not that bad to get wounded. I know that African wild dogs care for old and wounded members of the pack. Still you don't want to risk to die.

Surviving is about getting your meal. If that means stealing it by scaring off your competitors that's fine and dandy.

Now, I'm not actually going to get involved in this, but I advice to answer the following questions:

-is there a niche that feral dogs can take in India?
-if not. Could they take over the nice?

Oh, while typing this I see predator hierarchy, I wasn't even aware there exists such a thing. lol

Okay, in an effort to not embarrass myself I say:

-non-existent?
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ImperialDino
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Full Throttle
Jul 8 2013, 05:42 AM
Bandog
Jul 8 2013, 05:34 AM
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Jul 8 2013, 05:25 AM
Bandog
Jul 8 2013, 05:09 AM
The problem with the way they fight is they lose puff to early and need to rest. If fighting a larger, competent dog, the leopard won't be given its breather and will struggle if it can't get a good hold on the dog in the initial rush.
True, canids in general have more wind, however I'd think that it wouldn't take a Tom leopard too long to subdue a large dog.
Well in that first video the leopards stop after 20 seconds. A large and adept enough dog should certainly be able to resist that, from a smaller leopard at least.
Yes, as I previously stated I feel that if you put a Kutta up against a smaller female leopard the dog would have at least a fighting chance, though it would be severely clawed, I find it doubtful that a domestic dog could deal with a male leopard, or even a female of similar size, though I don't flat out disregard the possibility I just favor the leopard.

Also, the leopards stamina is not that atrocious, they were able to continue fighting savagely for a long time after the intermittent breaks, it's not like they'll keel over wheezing and gasping after 20 seconds of strenuous fighting, and I think that if the leopard succeeded in it's first rush, overpowered the dog with it's embrace and bought it to the ground, there would be very little the dog could do about it.
Leopards have crap stamina.
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It may be low, but how is it crappy?
http://carnivoraforum.com/topic/9567325/1/
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k9boy
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Vivec
Jul 8 2013, 06:12 AM
Just did.

I had noted earlier that a male Leopard would dominate a Bully Kutta at parity the majority of the time, although I feel it would give it more trouble at higher weights.
When you say higher weights, you mean both animals the same ? Because the larger the 2 animals get, the easier it will get for the leopard. Big dogs are not fully functional as a wolf or leopard would be at those weights.
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Vivec
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k9boy
Jul 9 2013, 05:40 AM
Vivec
Jul 8 2013, 06:12 AM
Just did.

I had noted earlier that a male Leopard would dominate a Bully Kutta at parity the majority of the time, although I feel it would give it more trouble at higher weights.
When you say higher weights, you mean both animals the same ? Because the larger the 2 animals get, the easier it will get for the leopard. Big dogs are not fully functional as a wolf or leopard would be at those weights.
Easier for the Leopard? Working Bully Kutta's are classified as mastiffs, yet are still rather lean in structure. They can still get to a 80kg average no trouble, obese specimens are typically 100 kg over in males, and about 80 kg over in females.

At over 140 pounds both of these animals will be in their prime.
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Vivec
Jul 9 2013, 06:13 AM
k9boy
Jul 9 2013, 05:40 AM
Vivec
Jul 8 2013, 06:12 AM
Just did.

I had noted earlier that a male Leopard would dominate a Bully Kutta at parity the majority of the time, although I feel it would give it more trouble at higher weights.
When you say higher weights, you mean both animals the same ? Because the larger the 2 animals get, the easier it will get for the leopard. Big dogs are not fully functional as a wolf or leopard would be at those weights.
Easier for the Leopard? Working Bully Kutta's are classified as mastiffs, yet are still rather lean in structure. They can still get to a 80kg average no trouble, obese specimens are typically 100 kg over in males, and about 80 kg over in females.

At over 140 pounds both of these animals will be in their prime.
At over 140 pounds the dog won't be anywhere as nimble nor adept at a sustained fight than a smaller, leaner dog, true Bully Kuttas carry less mass then other mastiffs and as a result are likely to have better stamina, we've seen these dogs slog it out for long periods of time, however I seriously doubt any of the proper, fighting BK'S, the most capable specimens are 140 pounds and over, no doubt they are large, probably in the 100-120 pound range, but I just can't envision a dog of that size having the right stuff for a prolonged fight, there is a reason why gamebred pits are leaner and more well conditioned than Bully type pitbulls and as a result are better fighters.

Just for comparison, here is a bully Kutta who is claimed to weigh 170 pounds:

Posted Image

Now compare him to Kuttas who are used as stud and fighting dogs:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

I can guarantee you that whilst those working Bully Kuttas certainly are over 100 pounds they would max out at around 130 pounds or so, a dog 140 pounds is going to suffer serious stamina and mobility problems the longer a fight draws out, put simply, the bigger you make the dog, the better the leopards chances are.

To have a fair fight the dog would need to be large, say at least 110 pounds and he would need either a size advantage over the leopard, or in the case of a female leopard he may be able to take control and overpower her.

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Vivec
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Full Throttle
Jul 9 2013, 06:41 AM
Vivec
Jul 9 2013, 06:13 AM
k9boy
Jul 9 2013, 05:40 AM
Vivec
Jul 8 2013, 06:12 AM
Just did.

I had noted earlier that a male Leopard would dominate a Bully Kutta at parity the majority of the time, although I feel it would give it more trouble at higher weights.
When you say higher weights, you mean both animals the same ? Because the larger the 2 animals get, the easier it will get for the leopard. Big dogs are not fully functional as a wolf or leopard would be at those weights.
Easier for the Leopard? Working Bully Kutta's are classified as mastiffs, yet are still rather lean in structure. They can still get to a 80kg average no trouble, obese specimens are typically 100 kg over in males, and about 80 kg over in females.

At over 140 pounds both of these animals will be in their prime.
At over 140 pounds the dog won't be anywhere as nimble nor adept at a sustained fight than a smaller, leaner dog, true Bully Kuttas carry less mass then other mastiffs and as a result are likely to have better stamina, we've seen these dogs slog it out for long periods of time, however I seriously doubt any of the proper, fighting BK'S, the most capable specimens are 140 pounds and over, no doubt they are large, probably in the 100-120 pound range, but I just can't envision a dog of that size having the right stuff for a prolonged fight, there is a reason why gamebred pits are leaner and more well conditioned than Bully type pitbulls and as a result are better fighters.

Just for comparison, here is a bully Kutta who is claimed to weigh 170 pounds:

Posted Image

Now compare him to Kuttas who are used as stud and fighting dogs:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

I can guarantee you that whilst those working Bully Kuttas certainly are over 100 pounds they would max out at around 130 pounds or so, a dog 140 pounds is going to suffer serious stamina and mobility problems the longer a fight draws out, put simply, the bigger you make the dog, the better the leopards chances are.

To have a fair fight the dog would need to be large, say at least 110 pounds and he would need either a size advantage over the leopard, or in the case of a female leopard he may be able to take control and overpower her.

I'd be inclined to agree that a Bully Kutta would suffer gait and overall energy problems at abnormal sizes, but Bully Kuttas are generally large dogs, males averaging 120-160 pounds and a lot of the time, weighing upwards in some larger fighting or working dogs.

The example you posted seems somewhat obese, especially when I look at the area surrounding the stomach. Most large Bully Kuttas I've seen, from a sideward view point are much less lethargic looking.

Posted Image

This looks like a prime example of a Pakistani mastiff that looks at least 140 pounds, but still looks perfectly capable of prolonging a fight long enough for their to be a victor, as most fights between carnivores close-up will end usually in about 1-2 minutes. The Leopard I do not presume will oust it in terms of stamina overall, or at least not a female.

A male Leopard, at round about the same size as the dog, I believe will overwhelm a Bully kutta, that's for sure imo. But we let the dog grow to a logically large size, I believe it has chances.
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maker
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A pack of them will dominate any predators except for tiger.
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kuri
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lol..we are still discussion fights between leopards and dogs..come on
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maker
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They do not need to fight, a pack of large canines will drive off a leopard.
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