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Who wins?
3 Amazon River Dolphins 5 (35.7%)
Black Caiman 9 (64.3%)
Total Votes: 14
3 Amazon River Dolphins v Black Caiman
Topic Started: Jan 23 2013, 05:24 PM (1,981 Views)
Taipan
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3 Amazon River Dolphins - Inia Geoffrensis
Inia geoffrensis, commonly known as the Amazon river dolphin, is a freshwater river dolphin endemic to the Orinoco, Amazon and Araguaia/Tocantins River systems of Brazil, Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador, Colombia and Venezuela. It was previously listed as a vulnerable species by the IUCN due to pollution, overfishing, excessive boat traffic and habitat loss but in 2011 it was changed to data deficient due to a lack of current information about threats, ecololgy, and population numbers and trends. Other common names of the species include boto, bufeo, lo lo annaaaa, boto cor-de-rosa, bouto, and pink dolphin. The Amazon river dolphin is one of a handful of river dolphins included in the paraphyletic group classified as the superfamily Platanistoidea. Although not a large cetacean in general terms, this dolphin is the largest cetacean to spend most of its life in freshwater; it can grow larger than a human. Body length can range from 1.53 to 2.4 m (5.0 to 7.9 ft), depending on subspecies. Females are typically larger than males. The largest female Amazon river dolphins can range up to 2.5 m (8.2 ft) in length and weigh 98.5 kg (217 lb). The largest male dolphins can range up to 2.0 m (6.6 ft) in length and weigh 94 kg (210 lb). They have unfused neck vertebrae, enabling them to turn their heads 180 degrees. Their flexibility is important in navigating through the flooded forests. Also, they possess long beaks which contain 24 to 34 conical and molar-type teeth on each side of the jaws.

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Black Caiman - Melanosuchus niger
The black caiman, Melanosuchus niger, is a crocodilian. It is a carnivorous reptile that lives along slow-moving rivers and lakes, in the seasonally flooded savannas of the Amazon basin, and in other freshwater habitats in South America. The black caiman has a bony ridge over brown eyes, and black, scaly skin. The skin coloration helps with camouflage during its nocturnal hunts, but may also help absorb heat (see thermoregulation). Mothers on guard near their nests are tormented by blood-sucking flies that gather around their vulnerable eyes leaving them bloodshot. The black caiman is one of the largest reptiles. It is the largest predator in the Amazon basin and possibly the largest member of the family Alligatoridae. The black caiman is one of the largest extant reptiles. It is the largest predator in the Amazon basin and possibly the largest member of the family Alligatoridae. Most adult black caimans are 2.8 to 4.26 metres (9.2–14 ft) in length, with a few old males growing larger than 5 m (16 ft) and exceeding a weight of 400 kg (880 lb). Sub-adult male specimens of around 2.5–3.35 m (8.2–11.0 ft) will weigh roughly 95–100 kg (210–220 lb) but will quickly increase in bulk and weigh. Mid-sized mature males of 3.5–4 m (11–13 ft) weigh approximately 300 kg (660 lb). The black caiman broadly overlaps in size with the American alligator (Alligator mississippiensis), although it is on average larger at maturity. In some areas (such as the Araguaia River) this species is consistently reported at 4 to 5 metres (13–16 ft) in length, much larger than the alligator (which rarely even reaches 4 meters), although specimens this size are uncommon. Several unconfirmed (probably largely anecdotal) sources report that the black caiman can grow to over 6 m (20 ft) in length and weigh up to 1,100 kg (2,400 lb).

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Mauro20
Jan 23 2013, 09:08 AM
Black Caiman vs 3 Amazon River Dolphins. It's enough, I guess.
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Catboy
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Caiman wins IMO, Seems more aggressive, armed with deadlier weaponry, however, the botos might be able to ram at the belly, or might be able to dig their teeth through the limbs.
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Mauro20
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Dolphins would win IMO. The armor of the caiman wouldn't protect it - amazon river dolphins can crush turtles and crabs. They can attack cooperatively, and they are more mobile, I guess. They aren't small animals, too. Look this size comparison from Wikipedia:

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I see the black caiman killing one of them, but not all of the three.
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Fishfreak
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slight edge to the dolphins, as mauro stated mobility is on their side, they work together and are pretty powerful, however the croc seems bigger (95+95+95 against 400<) at max weights, what's the average for the river dolphins?
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Black Ice
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How they gonna kill an armored predator? I see a stalemate.
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Fishfreak
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Black Ice
Jan 23 2013, 09:01 PM
How they gonna kill an armored predator? I see a stalemate.
Ramming the underbelly, at least in deep enough water, in shallow water however I a stalemate.
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Mauro20
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Black Ice
Jan 23 2013, 09:01 PM
How they gonna kill an armored predator? I see a stalemate.
As I said, they can crush turtles, why they couldn't hurt the caiman? The skull of this dolphin isn't as formidable as the skull of the caiman, but its still something to be feared:

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Black Ice
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They crush turtles much smaller than black caiman. And with the underbelly thing. Croc stomachs aren't made of paper. The black caiman could just lie on the river floor and wait to attack like they always do.
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Fishfreak
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Black Ice
Jan 23 2013, 09:25 PM
They crush turtles much smaller than black caiman. And with the underbelly thing. Croc stomachs aren't made of paper. The black caiman could just lie on the river floor and wait to attack like they always do.
Jaws which can crush hard turtle shells, should be able to do a good deal of damage to crocodiles limps. As for ramming, dolphins can do powerful rams and would eventually tire the caiman and kill it by drowning it or continue ramming, till it dies.
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Mauro20
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Black Ice
Jan 23 2013, 09:25 PM
They crush turtles much smaller than black caiman. And with the underbelly thing. Croc stomachs aren't made of paper. The black caiman could just lie on the river floor and wait to attack like they always do.
And these small turtles have a much more resistant armor than the big caiman.

The caiman must come to the surface to breathe, like the dolphins. It couldn't just lie on the river floor and wait. Anyway, these dolphins are very inteligent, they would cooperate to force the caiman to expose the belly.
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Godzillasaurus
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The caiman is a more deadly animal in general. But the dolphins have strength in numbers, so they would most likely take the cake.
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Tyrant
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Quote:
 
Ramming the underbelly, at least in deep enough water, in shallow water however I a stalemate.


Quote:
 
Anyway, these dolphins are very inteligent, they would cooperate to force the caiman to expose the belly.


First of all river dolphins are practically blind and unless the water they are fighting in is crystal clear the dolphins would have a hard time realizing that the caiman has a relativity soft underside. Secondly, even if they did attack the animals belly dolphins are much smaller than the caiman and have rather thin snots so they are far more likely to break their own nose before cracking open the caimans rib.

The fact that river dolphins aren't able to hold their breathe nearly as long as others only complicates things for them.
Edited by Tyrant, Jan 24 2013, 01:49 AM.
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Mauro20
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Tyrant
Jan 24 2013, 01:48 AM
First of all river dolphins are practically blind and unless the water they are fighting in is crystal clear the dolphins would have a hard time realizing that the caiman has a relativity soft underside.
The echolocation of dolphins is very accurate. Captive porpoises have shown that they can locate tiny objects and thin wires and distinguish between objects made of different metals. This is because an object's material, structure, and texture all affect the nature of the echo returning to the porpoise. They can figure out the nature of that material (rigid or soft) by figuring out the volume of the echo that is returned.

Anyway, as I said, botos can crush turtles shells, and they don't break their own noses. They aren't that fragile.
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theropod
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Tough choice. I´m inclined to favour the caiman, at least a large specimen, but I might beu underrating the dolphins.

questions:
-are there recorded cases of amazon rive dolphins using their snouts to ram, the way true dolphins occasionally do? I´m not sure whether their snouts could withstand the forces freed in such a collision
-do they commonly feed on anythign but small fish? I´m really badly informed on these animals, but according to all the literature on whales that I have (not very much I admitt) they are not really big game hunters
-could it be that either the scale or our profile is wrong? that dolphin doesn´t look like it was close to the weight of the human...

Three <100kg river dolphins vs one 4-6m caiman? I would say in that case the caiman has the advantage, it has more formidable weaponery, it is armoured and an expierienced killer. The dolphins are certainly fast and agile and they could cooperate, but they would eb at a tremendous weight and weapoenry disadvantage...
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Mauro20
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theropod
Jan 24 2013, 02:53 AM
I´m really badly informed on these animals, but according to all the literature on whales that I have (not very much I admitt) they are not really big game hunters
I'm not sure about your questions, but do you remember what you said in the topic "Velociraptor v Bobcat"?
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PitbullJoseph
Dec 23 2012, 02:35 AM
brolyeuphyfusion
Jul 13 2012, 10:39 PM
Velociraptor can take on Protoceratops, something that no bobcat can beat due to it's frill, bulky build, and strong beak, plus it's size advantage. Velociraptor was adapted to killing animals much larger than itself(like Protoceratops)
And so is the bobcat. Bobcats can take on deer.

By ambush in deep snow, and most deer are not as formidable an opponent as a Protoceratops, they are rather flight animals. Anyway, how naive are you two guys to believe a fight was decided by prey size?
Edited by Mauro20, Jan 24 2013, 03:37 AM.
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