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Do Burmese Pythons suppress other invasive species?; Quick question.
Topic Started: Jan 27 2013, 03:31 AM (2,595 Views)
M4A2E4
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Herbivore
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I quick question regarding the Burmese Python in the everglades and the status of other invasive pests there.
Is there any hard evidence that the Burmese Python is suppressing other non-native species found in the area? I've read a report implying that Pythons eat a LOT of feral cats, and may impact feral hog populations, but no hard numbers regarding either of these, or how the Pythons might interact with the invasive nutria, rock monitor, nile monitor, etc.

Also, for your opinions: I'm of the opinion that, until the Florida Panther makes a proper recovery in the area, the python is a "necessary evil" to control cats, raccoons, opossums, etc. Does anyone else agree with that or am I out of my mind?
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redclaw
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It can go both ways. The python kills more native than non-native species. But, it does compete with other non- natives.
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Scalesofanubis
Omnivore
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If memory serves, they eat an awful lot of nutria. Burmese pythons are effectively specialists in warm blooded prey and, in Florida, seemt to take a mesopredator sort of niche. The seem to mostly eat nutria, muskrats, rats, and rabbits.

I'd not be surprised if they take feral cats at a high rate.

From what I've seen, they don't seem to be harming native animal populations as severely as anticipated. Possibly partly because there are plenty of locals that are happy to eat them when they are young, and even as adults if the circumstances are right. Pythons and alligators are equally able to eat each other, for instance, and who gets to eat who depends on who sees who first, and alligators can handle cold snaps better.
During cold snaps, pythons sometimes get stuck out of shelter, and will be eaten by vultures, hogs, or even ants while in cold torpor. The juveniles are apparently better able to handle the situation than adults, and often live if they find shelter, but the bigger the snake is, the less likely it is to live through the cold snap due to exposure to predation and the biological effects of the cold.
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Ceratodromeus
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I don't thnk they do much to supress other invasives. they probably do more harm then good there, though.
From, the cost of invasive species - U.S. fish and wildlife services-
"Case Study: Burmese Pythons
Burmese pythons in Florida are known
to eat wood storks and Key Largo
woodrats, both federally endangered
species. From 1999 to 2009, federal
and state agencies spent $1.4 million
on Key Largo woodrat recovery and
$101.2 million on wood stork recovery.
The introduction of a reproducing
population of non-native pythons
places additional pressure on these two
species. Many large constrictor snakes
can live in habitats and climates in our
states and insular territories, and their
introduction and spread could threaten
other populations of endangered or
threatened species."
www.fws.gov/verobeach/PythonPDF/CostofInvasivesFactSheet.pdf

regardless, the pythons in florida are pretty rooted into the ecosystem and their populatons are huge. They're not going any where.
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Grimace
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Probably to an extent. Nutria and cats are pretty great food for them, but so are some natives.

Either way though, there arent many burms in florida so it doesnt do a ton either way.
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Mesopredator
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Disaster taxa
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Apparently mammals declined because of pythons.

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Grimace
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Mesopredator
Dec 28 2014, 08:49 PM
Thats a really awful study.
Correlation doesn't equal cause.
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Mesopredator
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Grimace
Dec 28 2014, 10:46 PM
Mesopredator
Dec 28 2014, 08:49 PM
Thats a really awful study.
Correlation doesn't equal cause.
Most studies on invasive species are awful (=biased) I would say.

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Grimace
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Mesopredator
Dec 29 2014, 12:09 AM
Grimace
Dec 28 2014, 10:46 PM
Mesopredator
Dec 28 2014, 08:49 PM
Thats a really awful study.
Correlation doesn't equal cause.
Most studies on invasive species are awful (=biased) I would say.

Probably.

At least burms are one of the less problematic invasives.
Being stuck in a tiny area, and getting thir populations nuked in the winter helps a ton.
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Mesopredator
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Grimace
Dec 29 2014, 12:58 AM
Mesopredator
Dec 29 2014, 12:09 AM
Grimace
Dec 28 2014, 10:46 PM
Mesopredator
Dec 28 2014, 08:49 PM
Thats a really awful study.
Correlation doesn't equal cause.
Most studies on invasive species are awful (=biased) I would say.

Probably.

At least burms are one of the less problematic invasives.
Being stuck in a tiny area, and getting thir populations nuked in the winter helps a ton.
Calling it awful might not be good, but I do think they are biased.
And of course I should not generalize. It depends on the individual study.

The media however does tend to exaggerate the issue.

Even if mammals were to decline because of pythons, ,I would think that
eventually they would increase again.

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Ophiophagy
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yes they do in florida

here is the million dollar question what predators in this pythons native land has prevented it from taking over ???? They keep saying that the everglades does not have enough predators to control this python. WELL WTF is controlling them back home?

Their numbers are in the 100 thousands now according to the new documentary so yes they are fuking up the ecosystem.

THe gators, the indigo, the king snakes, bobcats, pumas, skunks coon none of them are controlling crap. SO WHO IS CONTROLLING THEM BACK HOME? WE NEED THAT SPECIES IN THE EVERGLADES.


it cant be the mongoose only? they eat young pythons not big ones.
Edited by Ophiophagy, Dec 29 2014, 10:44 AM.
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Grimace
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CandidPets
Dec 29 2014, 10:42 AM
yes they do in florida

here is the million dollar question what predators in this pythons native land has prevented it from taking over ???? They keep saying that the everglades does not have enough predators to control this python. WELL WTF is controlling them back home?

Their numbers are in the 100 thousands now according to the new documentary so yes they are fuking up the ecosystem.

THe gators, the indigo, the king snakes, bobcats, pumas, skunks coon none of them are controlling crap. SO WHO IS CONTROLLING THEM BACK HOME? WE NEED THAT SPECIES IN THE EVERGLADES.


it cant be the mongoose only? they eat young pythons not big ones.
They're controlled by EVERYTHING in florida.

-They're in a small range of florida they cannot spread outside of.
-Alligators eat them
-EVERYTHING eats the babies
-most winters a good chunk of their population freezes to death
-people kill them too

Once you get past the media making garbage up to scare everyone, they're one of the more harmless invasives out there. Sure things would be better off without them, but it isn't nearly as bad as mainstream media wants you to believe.
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M4A2E4
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Oh crap I never realized that this thread picked up again.


In their native ranges burms would be getting killed by things like big cats or king cobra's. If you want a biological control on the pythons then the people of Florida are going to have to live with tiger attacks or 16 foot cobras in their back yards.

....actually aren't king cobras already in Florida?
Ceratodromeus
Dec 28 2014, 03:50 PM
I don't thnk they do much to supress other invasives. they probably do more harm then good there, though.
From, the cost of invasive species - U.S. fish and wildlife services-
"Case Study: Burmese Pythons
Burmese pythons in Florida are known
to eat wood storks and Key Largo
woodrats, both federally endangered
species. From 1999 to 2009, federal
and state agencies spent $1.4 million
on Key Largo woodrat recovery and
$101.2 million on wood stork recovery.
The introduction of a reproducing
population of non-native pythons
places additional pressure on these two
species. Many large constrictor snakes
can live in habitats and climates in our
states and insular territories, and their
introduction and spread could threaten
other populations of endangered or
threatened species."
www.fws.gov/verobeach/PythonPDF/CostofInvasivesFactSheet.pdf

regardless, the pythons in florida are pretty rooted into the ecosystem and their populatons are huge. They're not going any where.
Nobody cares about the Key Largo Woodrat. I'm sorry to say that, but pythons killing them is hardly a problem. Hundreds of the things are constantly being killed by cats, but nobody gives a flying sh!t. As soon as a snake eats two of them though everybody freaks the swear word out.


Which actually brings me back to my original question. If pythons can suppress feral cats, would certain native species actually be better off? I can imagine small songbirds and sea turtles benefiting enormously by a big python presence.
Edited by M4A2E4, Mar 15 2015, 01:34 AM.
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Creeper
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With the current state of Florida's wetlands the state can't really support more population of Florida panthers than what exist now. Cougars require large expanses of unobstructed wild habitat to thrive, southern Florida is much too urban now to support more than the population that already exist there. Panthers are literally killing each other for the limited habitat available.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/environment/wildlife/dead-cat-walking-as-florida-panther-habitat-shrinks-extinction-fears-rise/1087962
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Grimace
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M4A2E4
Mar 15 2015, 01:33 AM
Oh crap I never realized that this thread picked up again.


In their native ranges burms would be getting killed by things like big cats or king cobra's. If you want a biological control on the pythons then the people of Florida are going to have to live with tiger attacks or 16 foot cobras in their back yards.

....actually aren't king cobras already in Florida?
Ceratodromeus
Dec 28 2014, 03:50 PM
I don't thnk they do much to supress other invasives. they probably do more harm then good there, though.
From, the cost of invasive species - U.S. fish and wildlife services-
"Case Study: Burmese Pythons
Burmese pythons in Florida are known
to eat wood storks and Key Largo
woodrats, both federally endangered
species. From 1999 to 2009, federal
and state agencies spent $1.4 million
on Key Largo woodrat recovery and
$101.2 million on wood stork recovery.
The introduction of a reproducing
population of non-native pythons
places additional pressure on these two
species. Many large constrictor snakes
can live in habitats and climates in our
states and insular territories, and their
introduction and spread could threaten
other populations of endangered or
threatened species."
www.fws.gov/verobeach/PythonPDF/CostofInvasivesFactSheet.pdf

regardless, the pythons in florida are pretty rooted into the ecosystem and their populatons are huge. They're not going any where.
Nobody cares about the Key Largo Woodrat. I'm sorry to say that, but pythons killing them is hardly a problem. Hundreds of the things are constantly being killed by cats, but nobody gives a flying sh!t. As soon as a snake eats two of them though everybody freaks the swear word out.


Which actually brings me back to my original question. If pythons can suppress feral cats, would certain native species actually be better off? I can imagine small songbirds and sea turtles benefiting enormously by a big python presence.
A big python presence would likely help songbirds, yes.

It'd hurt other things though, and florida is too cold for anything more than a minimal python presence.
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