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Wolves vs striped hyena
Topic Started: Feb 23 2013, 11:15 PM (6,780 Views)
Vivec
Canid and snake enthusiast.
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Are you saying all of the Coyotes in the East are hybrids? A wolf would rather attack a Coyote than breed with it, with certain exceptions, but hardly enough times so that it can create and entire population of it.

"100 "coyotes" collected in Maine, 22 had half or more grey wolf ancestry, and one was 89% grey wolf. The large eastern coyotes in Canada are proposed to be actually hybrids of the smaller western coyotes and grey wolves that met and mated decades ago, as the coyotes moved toward New England from their earlier western ranges."

Unless 22 out of 100 is the majority of the population then it seems skeptical, of course considering interbreeding with the Great Plains Wolf.
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Black Ice
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Drom King
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Rashido
Mar 4 2013, 08:06 AM
Because coyotes in the west are pure coyote, in the east they're hybrids. Populations that size (40-60lbs) are the exception that proves the rule. It is not accurate to portray most coyotes as this size, and comparing them to a striped hyena is most certainly not a valid comparison.
I was comparing them in SIZE not MORPHOLOGY. How could you not see that?
Edited by Black Ice, Mar 4 2013, 10:50 AM.
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ImperialDino
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Wolves showed no effort to keep their meal.
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MightyKharza
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Watched the whole episode, and it turns out the hyena won after all.

In any case, this video is historically significant, as it:

a) shows the largest Arabian pack ever recorded, and

b) is the first video footage of the two species together.

Black Ice
 
My reasoning behind the NA wolves treating the hyena like a weird coyote is two things.

1. Striped hyenas and coyote are around the same size etc. So that being how wolves are used to seeing dog like animals in the form of coyotes. If you put another dog like animal around a coyotes size into NA wolf territory. Since coyote are the only things wolves are used to. They would treat the hyena no different .

Trial and error type deal.


And cheetahs are around the same size as leopards.

Even if an NA wolf sees the hyena as a "weird" coyote (which I doubt), the hyena is certainly not going to react the same way a coyote would. Coyotes are deathly afraid of wolves, whereas striped hyenas frequently confront leopards on kills. A single NA wolf thinking it's going to just mock charge a hyena and end it there and then would get more than it bargained for.

Leopards have been known to kill roughly hyena-sized dogs with impunity, yet flee from hyenas themselves. It's obvious leopards (and possibly wolves) recognise hyenas for what they are, and don't see them as simply freakish dogs.
Edited by MightyKharza, Mar 4 2013, 08:00 PM.
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Black Ice
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And cheetahs are around the same size as leopards.

And the point of this was?
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Even if an NA wolf sees the hyena as a "weird" coyote (which I doubt), the hyena is certainly not going to react the same way a coyote would. Coyotes are deathly afraid of wolves, whereas striped hyenas frequently confront leopards on kills. A single NA wolf thinking it's going to just mock charge a hyena and end it there and then would get more than it bargained for.

A couple notes:
1) I was saying how the WOLF would act, not the striped hyena as you seem to think here,
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the hyena is certainly not going to react the same way a coyote would

When did I ever say anything about how coyotes act towards wolves?
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Coyotes are deathly afraid of wolves, whereas striped hyenas frequently confront leopards on kills

You say this as if striped hyena kill leopards frequently. Once again what does this have to do with what I said?
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A single NA wolf thinking it's going to just mock charge a hyena and end it there and then would get more than it bargained for.

No it wouldn't. You'd get a dead hyena.
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Leopards have been known to kill roughly hyena-sized dogs with impunity, yet flee from hyenas themselves. It's obvious leopards (and possibly wolves) recognise hyenas for what they are, and don't see them as simply freakish dogs.

North American wolves don't know what a hyena is. This should've been obvious don't you think?
Edited by Black Ice, Mar 4 2013, 08:11 PM.
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MightyKharza
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Black Ice
 
And the point of this was?


Similar size does not equal similar outcome. Lions/Spotted hyenas seem to treat leopards with slightly more respect than cheetahs, despite their similar sizes.

Black Ice
 
1) I was saying how the WOLF would act, not the striped hyena as you seem to think here,


A wolf, no matter how large, just barging into a striped hyena with the same casuality as it would a coyote, would probably want to avoid doing such a reckless thing in future, even if it did win.

Black Ice
 
No it wouldn't. You'd get a dead hyena.


I doubt that would happen with the same speed and ease with which an NA wolf could kill a coyote. See above.

Black Ice
 
When did I ever say anything about how coyotes act towards wolves?


Nowhere, though I think it's a significant oversight on your part, considering coyote/striped hyena behavioural differences.

Black Ice
 
You say this as if striped hyena kill leopards frequently. Once again what does this have to do with what I said?


Confront, not kill. A lone coyote wouldn't dare to try chasing a cougar, yet the similarly sized striped hyena has been recorded numerous times to do so with leopards. I simply think this behavioral difference would be significant in a confrontation with a large wolf. The coyote is basically North America's jackal, whereas striped hyenas are accustomed to taking on large predators on kills.

Black Ice
 
North American wolves don't know what a hyena is. This should've been obvious don't you think?


Indeed. And as I recall, wolves do not automatically confront/kill animals they're unfamiliar with until after a long period of testing and habituation. I doubt NA wolves acting alone would get much satisfaction from a striped hyena during the tentative "testing" period.

Wolves are not stupid. Whether or not striped hyenas and coyotes are similarly sized, wolves are great observational learners, and could very well see that a hyena is more strongly built than a coyote, with a far more massive skull and dentition. Hence, although I think an NA wolf could win in a full on fight, I do not think a lone individual would treat a striped hyena with the same impetuousness as a coyote.
Edited by MightyKharza, Mar 4 2013, 09:00 PM.
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if you look at it this way a large eurasian wolf 60 years ago would absolutely have the advantage against a striped hyena retching 60 kg (some cases even more) but these wolves are the biggest, strongest and smartest wolves, but sadly there are not many left reaching these weight's now the average weight is only 38,8 kg (both male and female) and that's not much bigger than an average striped hyena. so let's say a big male wolf is 45 kg and a big male hyena is 41 kg. than I even think here the striped hyena would win they are just amazing, heard from a animal entusiast in India (Chincholi forest) that he had seen a single striped hyena steeling a carcass from five or six wolves. so they has to be stronger than most people think's.
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ImperialDino
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MightyKharza
Mar 4 2013, 07:49 PM
Watched the whole episode, and it turns out the hyena won after all.

In any case, this video is historically significant, as it:

a) shows the largest Arabian pack ever recorded, and

b) is the first video footage of the two species together.

Black Ice
 
My reasoning behind the NA wolves treating the hyena like a weird coyote is two things.

1. Striped hyenas and coyote are around the same size etc. So that being how wolves are used to seeing dog like animals in the form of coyotes. If you put another dog like animal around a coyotes size into NA wolf territory. Since coyote are the only things wolves are used to. They would treat the hyena no different .

Trial and error type deal.


And cheetahs are around the same size as leopards.

Even if an NA wolf sees the hyena as a "weird" coyote (which I doubt), the hyena is certainly not going to react the same way a coyote would. Coyotes are deathly afraid of wolves, whereas striped hyenas frequently confront leopards on kills. A single NA wolf thinking it's going to just mock charge a hyena and end it there and then would get more than it bargained for.

Leopards have been known to kill roughly hyena-sized dogs with impunity, yet flee from hyenas themselves. It's obvious leopards (and possibly wolves) recognise hyenas for what they are, and don't see them as simply freakish dogs.
The wolves that Coyotes encounter are more aggressive then these types of Wolves. There's no way that a Striped Hyena could just walk into a pack of NA wolves and feed on a meal. Hell even NA coyotes would troll the Striped Hyena.
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MightyKharza
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ImperialDino
Apr 7 2013, 07:38 PM
The wolves that Coyotes encounter are more aggressive then these types of Wolves. There's no way that a Striped Hyena could just walk into a pack of NA wolves and feed on a meal. Hell even NA coyotes would troll the Striped Hyena.
I didn't realise you now considered yourself an "expert" on Arabian wolves too, but then again it is of no consequence to me, as you've provided no proof at all.
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ImperialDino
Apr 7 2013, 07:38 PM
MightyKharza
Mar 4 2013, 07:49 PM
Watched the whole episode, and it turns out the hyena won after all.

In any case, this video is historically significant, as it:

a) shows the largest Arabian pack ever recorded, and

b) is the first video footage of the two species together.

Black Ice
 
My reasoning behind the NA wolves treating the hyena like a weird coyote is two things.

1. Striped hyenas and coyote are around the same size etc. So that being how wolves are used to seeing dog like animals in the form of coyotes. If you put another dog like animal around a coyotes size into NA wolf territory. Since coyote are the only things wolves are used to. They would treat the hyena no different .

Trial and error type deal.


And cheetahs are around the same size as leopards.

Even if an NA wolf sees the hyena as a "weird" coyote (which I doubt), the hyena is certainly not going to react the same way a coyote would. Coyotes are deathly afraid of wolves, whereas striped hyenas frequently confront leopards on kills. A single NA wolf thinking it's going to just mock charge a hyena and end it there and then would get more than it bargained for.

Leopards have been known to kill roughly hyena-sized dogs with impunity, yet flee from hyenas themselves. It's obvious leopards (and possibly wolves) recognise hyenas for what they are, and don't see them as simply freakish dogs.
The wolves that Coyotes encounter are more aggressive then these types of Wolves. There's no way that a Striped Hyena could just walk into a pack of NA wolves and feed on a meal. Hell even NA coyotes would troll the Striped Hyena.
coyotes would been forced away by a hyena Have meet indian wolves entusiasts that says striped hyenas also has being steeling carcasses from a couple of wolves in day time. so you are absolutely correct that wolves in india are smaller, less aggressive and more slightly lighter build than NA and eurasian wolves, but stronger and more aggressive than coyotes are they. so a striped hyena would dominate coyotes I.M.O quite clear but a pack of eurasian of North American wolves they stand no chance, but here is the one on one interesting wolves are bigger, while the hyena is more durable and who knows who would win that fight very close I.M.O!
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