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Who wins?
Mapusaurus roseae 0 (0%)
Tyrannosaurus rex 8 (100%)
Total Votes: 8
Mapusaurus roseae v Tyrannosaurus rex
Topic Started: Apr 12 2013, 11:23 AM (13,991 Views)
DinosaurMichael
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Mapusaurus roseae
Mapusaurus ('earth lizard') was a giant carnosaurian dinosaur from the early Late Cretaceous (Cenomanian stage) of what is now Argentina. It was similar in size to its close relative Giganotosaurus, with the largest known individuals estimated as over 12.6 metres (41 ft) in length* and weight estimates of approximately 3 metric tons to 5.5 metric tons. Mapusaurus was excavated between 1997 and 2001, by the Argentinian-Canadian Dinosaur Project, from an exposure of the Huincul Formation (Rio Limay Group, Cenomanian) at Canadon de Gato. It was described and named by paleontologists Rodolfo Coria and Phil Currie in 2006. The fossil remains of Mapusaurus were discovered in a bone bed containing at least seven individuals of various growth stages. Coria and Currie speculated that this may represent a long term, possibly coincidental accumulation of carcasses (some sort of predator trap) and may provide clues about Mapusaurus behavior. Other known theropod bone beds include the Allosaurus-dominated Cleveland Lloyd Dinosaur Quarry of Utah, an Albertosaurus bone bed from Alberta and a Daspletosaurus bone bed from Montana.

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Tyrannosaurus rex
Tyrannosaurus is a genus of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaur. The species Tyrannosaurus rex (rex meaning "king" in Latin), commonly abbreviated to T. rex, is a fixture in popular culture. It lived throughout what is now western North America, with a much wider range than other tyrannosaurids. Fossils are found in a variety of rock formations dating to the Maastrichtian age of the upper Cretaceous Period, 67 to 65.5 million years ago. It was among the last non-avian dinosaurs to exist before the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. Like other tyrannosaurids, Tyrannosaurus was a bipedal carnivore with a massive skull balanced by a long, heavy tail. Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, Tyrannosaurus forelimbs were small, though unusually powerful for their size, and bore two clawed digits. Although other theropods rivaled or exceeded Tyrannosaurus rex in size, it was the largest known tyrannosaurid and one of the largest known land predators. By far the largest carnivore in its environment, Tyrannosaurus rex may have been an apex predator, preying upon hadrosaurs and ceratopsians, although some experts have suggested it was primarily a scavenger. The debate over Tyrannosaurus as apex predator or scavenger is among the longest running in paleontology. Tyrannosaurus rex was one of the largest land carnivores of all time; the largest complete specimen, FMNH PR2081 ("Sue"), measured 12.8 metres (42 ft) long, and was 4.0 metres (13.1 ft) tall at the hips. Mass estimates have varied widely over the years, from more than 7.2 metric tons (7.9 short tons), to less than 4.5 metric tons (5.0 short tons), with most modern estimates ranging between 5.4 and 6.8 metric tons (6.0 and 7.5 short tons). Packard et al. (2009) tested dinosaur mass estimation procedures on elephants and concluded that dinosaur estimations are flawed and produce over-estimations; thus, the weight of Tyrannosaurus could be much less than usually estimated. Other estimations have concluded that the largest known Tyrannosaurus specimens had a weight exceeding 9 tonnes.

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Edited by Taipan, Dec 31 2016, 12:33 PM.
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DarkGricer
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Well, Mapusaurus apparently was more gracile than Giganotosaurus, who already is pretty close to Rex when it comes to weight, so Mapusaurus probably was smaller and a lot less robust than the Tyrant Lizard King.


Tyrannosaurus wins 70% of the time.
Edited by DarkGricer, Apr 12 2013, 11:48 AM.
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Bandog
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Depending on how large mapusaurus was, it could be big enough to overcome the more robust rex.
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theropod
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Given we are using the actual maximum size of this taxon, I think Mapusaurus should win, due to the benefits it has anyway and with size being the deciding factor.
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Carcharadon
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Mapusaurus was perhaps bigger at max size so i favor it
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Spinodontosaurus
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theropod
Apr 12 2013, 06:14 PM
due to the benefits it has anyway
Erm?

Only advantage it may have had - that is not countered by something else (e.g. slicing teeth vs. crushing teeth) - would be size, and that is hardly concrete. Even if it were longer, it doesn't appear to have been a very robust animal and so may not have been any larger overall anyway.
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Big G
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Mapusaurus=11.5 m
Tyrannosaurus=12 m

My choose=Tyrannosaurus wins easily
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theropod
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Spinodontosaurus
Apr 12 2013, 09:17 PM
theropod
Apr 12 2013, 06:14 PM
due to the benefits it has anyway
Erm?

Only advantage it may have had - that is not countered by something else (e.g. slicing teeth vs. crushing teeth) - would be size, and that is hardly concrete. Even if it were longer, it doesn't appear to have been a very robust animal and so may not have been any larger overall anyway.
I'm counting the ones that are countered, because that's true for every advantage and disadvantage. If at parity there is little advantage for either, its clear the larger animal wins.
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Monitor X
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theropod
Apr 12 2013, 11:49 PM
Spinodontosaurus
Apr 12 2013, 09:17 PM
theropod
Apr 12 2013, 06:14 PM
due to the benefits it has anyway
Erm?

Only advantage it may have had - that is not countered by something else (e.g. slicing teeth vs. crushing teeth) - would be size, and that is hardly concrete. Even if it were longer, it doesn't appear to have been a very robust animal and so may not have been any larger overall anyway.
I'm counting the ones that are countered, because that's true for every advantage and disadvantage. If at parity there is little advantage for either, its clear the larger animal wins.
Mapu is no larger than rex, at least not in weight. Do not take mainstream enthusiasts informations too seriously man, they often say this one or this one was larger than rex and at the end, they finally realize it's only as large and likely a bit lighter. Mapu is a bit too much gracile in comparison to rex. Giga is a better match.
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theropod
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Where's the evidence for it being so absurdely gracile? And you guys realize that the largest mapusaurus is dimensionally 10% larger than the giganotosaurus holotype (supposedly "only marginally smaller than sue"), which means at least 2% larger than MUCPv-95, and should, assuming geometric similarity, be 1/3 heavier? I think that's pretty easily enough to counteract it being a bit more gracile (and the femur circumference metod has been proven to be unreliable as hell).
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Monitor X
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You have to found evidences of Mapusaurus being robust and heavier than Giga or rex. There's nothing I can find here. To date, Mapu is not the largest member of the carcharodontosaur family. You extrapolate too much your numbers and assumptions. How's that 10 % larger than Giga holotype ? 10 % larger on which bone or skeletal portion ? Are you aware that these types of theropods often show variations in their overall body proportions ? I think you're too much enthusiastic on anythig but Tyrex. I'm not one of these guys dreaming to have sex with Tyrex, actually my favorite one remains Spinosaurus because of how much enigmatic it is, but there's a time where the personnal wishful thinkings should stop if you want to display some seriousness.
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blaze
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It's T. rex not Tyrex anyway, what theropod said about that 10% bigger bone has been mentioned in almost every thread that deals with Mapusaurus. The minimum dimensions of a pubic shaft of Mapusaurus are 10% larger than the same dimension in the Giganotosaurus holotype (Coria & Currie, 2006) and there's also a fibula 2% larger that that of the Giganotosaurus holotype, though it's not as robust.

I lean to the idea that most of the largest material of Mapusaurus are of individuals of essentially the same size as Giganotosaurus holotype but theropod is right in that there is no evidence (at least not stated in the literature) of Mapusaurus being rather gracille in overall proportions, only that the femur of a not that big on an individual didn't had as great a circumference, though, we are talking about a 10m Mapusaurus, with femora 1.27-1.3m long, comparable in robustness to the 1.28m femur of the largest Acrocanthosaurus known (11.5m+) which weight has been hovering around 6 tonnes in 3D model estimates (Bates et al., 2009; Henderson and Snively, 2004 ) and could possible have been 7 tonnes (Bates et al., 2009). This shows how unreliable the equation for femur circumference is, it's very likely underestimating the mass of that individual by a factor of 2.

EDIT: typos and slightly rant-ish sentence.
Edited by blaze, Apr 13 2013, 07:23 AM.
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Monitor X
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Well, still it's not commonly used in the top three or four lists of the very biggest theropods, and most of the descriptions highlight a very large carnivore but no bigger than Giga, except in the old first reports. But yeah, I can live with that it may grown larger or as large as Giga, after all this one is a more primitive version, I see no reason why the lineage would have decreased in size.

Now back to the topic, Mapu would be a dangerous rival to a large Tyrex (yeah, I like Tyrex !) but still the attributes of the tyrant reptile sound more brutish. These carcharodontosaurs are badass but slender in their body shape and especially skull shape. They do not give the same impression of power than the skull of a large tyrannosaur. That's what the "anything but Tyrex" guys of this forum cannot or don't want understand.
Edited by Monitor X, Apr 13 2013, 12:10 PM.
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Jinfengopteryx
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Why are there no estimates for the largest specimen....
Most I read are only "similar in size to Giganotosaurus" or "100-103% larger".
It seems like we have here the same problem as with Carcharodontosaurus. I guess if I believe in a 14 m Carcharodontosaurus, I also should believe in a Mapusaurus a bit larger than MUCPv-95.
Assuming similar proportions as MUCP, it would weigh roughly 8,7 t, so heavier than Sue by 1 t, that is enough for it to win.
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Spinodontosaurus
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As on the Mapu' vs Giga' thread;
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Anyway, I took the liberty of scaling Sinkkonen's Mapusaurus to a length 10% greater than Scott Hartman's Giganotosaurus (well, 9% to account for the differing pose) and did a bit of bodging to get them into the same leg stance.

And this time compared it to Hartman's Tyrannosaurus. Again, if the Mapusaurus reconstruction is accurate, I still would favour Tyrannosaurus.
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