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| Bite force of sauropods?; How hard do you think can sauropods bite? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 2 2013, 03:47 AM (4,929 Views) | |
| SpinoInWonderland | May 2 2013, 03:47 AM Post #1 |
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The madness has come back...
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How hard, do you think, sauropods can bite? Can they reach surprisingly high bite forces, for the largest sauropods at least? Or are they wayyy low? Can a large sauropod hypothetically break someone's arm with it's bite? If you ask me, I think the very largest of sauropods, like Amphicoelias fragillimus, can bite with a force comparable to hyenas, and that creatures like Europasaurus have bite forces comparable to that of a human child... Hypothesize and speculate! |
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| DinosaurMichael | May 2 2013, 03:54 AM Post #2 |
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Apex Predator
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I would assume their bite force wouldn't be very strong as they ate leaves from trees and all that. Thereby not needing such a strong bite. Still I wouldn't want to stick my hand into it's mouth or any animal's for that matter. |
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| SpinoInWonderland | May 2 2013, 03:59 AM Post #3 |
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The madness has come back...
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They won't be strong in relative terms, but in absolute terms, the largest sauropods could potentially out-bite many of today's land predators due to sheer skull size... Edited by SpinoInWonderland, May 2 2013, 03:59 AM.
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| DinosaurMichael | May 2 2013, 04:02 AM Post #4 |
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Apex Predator
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True good point. |
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| theropod | May 2 2013, 04:04 AM Post #5 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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A large sauropod, like for example Amphicoelias, Argentinosaurus or Puertasaurus, would need to have cinsiderable jaw power just to lift its mandible and still have enough force left to strip the branches of their leaves. No idea how much that would be, as they obviously didn't chew and thus wouldn't have needed more bite-force than the barest minimum, but physically it is very unlikely a sauropod with a human-sized skull wouldn't have a bite force that is impressive at least compared to many modern animals. This of course only applies to large sauropods, as all that would give them a strong bite would be sheer size. But scaling isometrically, if a 1t sauropod bit with a force of, say, 20kg, a 150t one would bite about 28 times harder. I don't know what exact bite force a hyaena has, but I think brolys guess may be pretty good. |
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| SpinoInWonderland | May 2 2013, 04:18 AM Post #6 |
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The madness has come back...
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Just to give an idea of how large the skulls of the largest sauropods could potentially be:
The larger Amphicoelias fragillimus skull was based on a calculation I did: http://carnivoraforum.com/blog/entry/3839381/42968/, it's skull is larger than that of S. aegyptiacus specimen MSNM V4047... I can see the ~58-meter A. fragillimus generating more than 4000-5000 newtons of bite force... |
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| Jinfengopteryx | May 2 2013, 04:22 AM Post #7 |
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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I agree. This even sounds conservative to me. |
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| Vivec | May 2 2013, 04:24 AM Post #8 |
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Canid and snake enthusiast.
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They'd need to have strong back teeth to rip through tough bark and trees, but I think their front teeth should be less powerful as they serve little purpose. |
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| Big G | May 2 2013, 04:37 AM Post #9 |
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Herbivore
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This really is a good guess. In that case, the alleged Brontodopus 75 meters long (although perhaps a bit exaggerated) would have a bite much stronger than that of Tyrannosaurus and other giant Theropods. |
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| Ausar | May 2 2013, 04:47 AM Post #10 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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Sauropods didn't chew, thus they wouldn't really have strong jaw muscles, hence their bite forces probably wouldn't be extremely high. However, I agree that they would have bite forces like the one broly suggested. |
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| theropod | May 2 2013, 05:57 AM Post #11 |
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palaeontology, open source and survival enthusiast
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The range broly suggested fits what a calculation would yield quite well, even at a very conservative 20kg for a 1t sauropod (no, not as extreme as it sounds considering a 1t sauropod has at best the skull size of a small dog) it turns out at more than 400kg for a 100t sauropod (I think it is easier to think of the bite force for an animal whose skull and general size are still imaginable and in a size range comparable to extant animals and then scaling it up), for a 150t sauropod even more than 550kg. There are probably considerable differences that we should keep in mind, even within sauropoda. Diplodocids and some derived macronarians have pretty elongate skulls, most other sauropods have shorter ones. The teeth are restricted to the front of the maxilla and premaxilla in msot of not all sauropods, so that means the mechanical advantage of the front of the jaws will be all that matters. Hence, longer-skulled species will have a generally weaker bite, as they all bite just with the tip of the rostrum. The stronest bite will probably found in an animal with a Camarasaurus-like skull morphology. Even diplodocids have relatively robustly constructed skulls considering they didn't have to be resistant. |
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| SpinoInWonderland | May 2 2013, 11:45 PM Post #12 |
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The madness has come back...
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That claim of is yours severely exaggerated. A 250-tonne sauropod, if theropod's guess about a 1-tonne sauropod is correct, would have had a bite force of ~7940 newtons... Now, you may say that animals get more robust musculature as they get larger, which is true, but even taking that into account, I don't really see sauropods getting past the 10 kilonewton mark... So, the largest sauropods(Parabrontopodus distercii - sized) may outperform most abelisaurs and spinosaurids* in terms of bite force, but it's a stretch to say that they would outbite Big Al, let alone Tyrannosaurus... *Sakamoto estimated the bite force of Baryonyx(which has a ~91.5 cm skull) at ~3870 newtons, scaling to Suchomimus(120 cm skull) would yield ~6656 newtons of bite force... |
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| Jinfengopteryx | May 3 2013, 12:48 AM Post #13 |
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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Suchomimus' skull is differently built. You know that it is more fragile. |
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| SpinoInWonderland | May 3 2013, 01:36 AM Post #14 |
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The madness has come back...
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I just did a simple calculation for comparison purposes. The message is "The largest sauropods may potentially out-bite most abelisaurs and spinosaurids" |
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| Jinfengopteryx | May 3 2013, 04:02 AM Post #15 |
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Aspiring paleontologist, science enthusiast and armchair speculative fiction/evolution writer
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But when taking this into account, Suchomimus' bite force could be a lot lower, maybe lower than 500 kg. |
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