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| Allosaurus fragilis v Carnotaurus sastrei | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 17 2013, 09:04 PM (12,178 Views) | |
| Taipan | Jun 17 2013, 09:04 PM Post #1 |
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Allosaurus fragilis Allosaurus (play /ˌælɵˈsɔrəs/) is a genus of large theropod dinosaur that lived 155 to 150 million years ago during the late Jurassic period (Kimmeridgian to early Tithonian). Allosaurus was a large bipedal predator. Its skull was large and equipped with dozens of large, sharp teeth. It averaged 8.5 meters (28 ft) in length, though fragmentary remains suggest it could have reached over 12 meters (39 ft). Relative to the large and powerful hindlimbs, its three-fingered forelimbs were small, and the body was balanced by a long, heavy tail. As the most abundant large predator in the Morrison Formation, Allosaurus was at the top of the food chain, probably preying on contemporaneous large herbivorous dinosaurs and perhaps even other predators (e.g. Ceratosaurus). Potential prey included ornithopods, stegosaurids, and sauropods. Allosaurus was a typical large theropod, having a massive skull on a short neck, a long tail and reduced forelimbs. Allosaurus fragilis, the best-known species, had an average length of 8.5 meters (28 ft), with the largest definitive Allosaurus specimen (AMNH 680) estimated at 9.7 meters long (32 ft), and an estimated weight of 2.3 metric tons (2.5 short tons). In his 1976 monograph on Allosaurus, James Madsen mentioned a range of bone sizes which he interpreted to show a maximum length of 12 to 13 meters (40 to 43 ft). As with dinosaurs in general, weight estimates are debatable, and since 1980 have ranged between 1500 kilograms (3300 lb), 1000 to 4000 kilograms (2200 to 8800 lb), and 1010 kilograms (2230 lb) for modal adult weight (not maximum). John Foster, a specialist on the Morrison Formation, suggests that 1000 kg (2200 lb) is reasonable for large adults of A. fragilis, but that 700 kg (1500 lb) is a closer estimate for individuals represented by the average-sized thigh bones he has measured. Using the subadult specimen nicknamed "Big Al", researchers using computer modelling arrived at a best estimate of 1,500 kilograms (3,300 lb) for the individual, but by varying parameters they found a range from approximately 1,400 kilograms (3,100 lb) to approximately 2,000 kilograms (4,400 lb). ![]() Carnotaurus sastrei Carnotaurus was a large predatory dinosaur. Only one species, Carnotaurus sastrei has been described so far. Carnotaurus lived in Patagonia, Argentina (La Colonia Formation) during the Campanian or Maastrichtian stage of the Late Cretaceous. Carnotaurus was a large theropod, about 8 metres (26 ft) in length, weighing between 1488 kg and 2626 kg (1.6–2.9 short tons), depending on the method of estimation. The most distinctive features of Carnotaurus are the two thick horns above the eyes, and the extremely reduced forelimbs with four basic digits, though only the middle two of these ended in finger bones, while the fourth was splint-like and may have represented an external 'spur.' The fingers themselves were fused and immobile, and lacked claws. It is also characterized by its unusually long neck (compared to other abelisaurs), and its small head with box-shaped jaws. The eyes of Carnotaurus faced forward, which is unusual in a dinosaur, and may indicate binocular vision and depth perception. There is a rather puzzling contrast between Carnotaurus’ deep, robust-looking skull and its shallow, slender lower jaw. So far no one has worked out what this might imply about its methods of feeding. ____________________________________________________________________
Ceratosaurus is probably too small, so lets try this first. |
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| Soopairik | Jan 7 2017, 06:02 AM Post #46 |
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Carnoferox's sex toy
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Allosaurus would win. It's larger with better claws. Even if Carno has a stronger jaw, Allosaurus still has the upper hand. Literally. |
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| Carnotaur | Jan 8 2017, 08:39 AM Post #47 |
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Saprotrophic Organism
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Sorry for being late,but: At parity,the main (if not the only) advantage that I see for Allosaurus is the superior weaponry:the skull probably was larger(+85cm x 60cm),and the teeth too,probably giving it the advantage in things like gape,raw damage,etc.;also,Allosaurus had unusual muscle attachments on the skull and neck that suggest extremely powerful ventroflexion of the head,what could compensate the lack of powerful bite force(though it isn't as low as many think).Finally,it had much more well developed forearms and much larger claws,which probably weren't killing tools on their own,but could help in battle. At parity,the advantages that I see for Carnotaurus are:the much thicker and probably much stronger neck(what can mean,among other advantages,stronger postcranial movements which can help creating larger wounds)and the unusually compact and stiff spinal colunm,better at sustaining and transmiting forces.Also,I can see it having better stamina,due to its cursoriality. At parity,I'd favor Carnotaurus,since I don't think the weaponry advantage of Allosaurus would be enough to overcome Carnotaurus' advantages.However,the largest specimens of Allosaurus fragilis were much larger than Carnotaurus,so I think those specimens should win most of the time. Edited by Carnotaur, Jan 9 2017, 07:43 AM.
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| Ausar | Jan 8 2017, 12:48 PM Post #48 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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I can't believe I didn't see this until recently. I thank you for the input, and a full PDF is available on researchgate. But I'm actually still a bit confused: what does 10Saurornitholestes Zx/10V. komodoensis give? The former's bite force relative to the latter? I also realized that the mean Tyrannosaurus bite force figure above the published estimates (i.e. this one was by the authors themselves) is actually greater than 235 kN. It's actually close to ~301 kN. And from the way I understand it, they don't use the apparently flawed methodology by Meers (2002) that got 235 kN. They actually looked at bending stresses of the mandibles and the experimentally measured bite force of an American alligator, doubled to account for contralateral adductor musculature. A later study (Erickson et al., 2012) experimentally measured a 297 kilogram American alligator to have a molariform bite force of 9,452 N; if this too doesn't account for contralateral adductor muscles and is doubled, then actual bite force would be 18,904 N, which is pretty damn close to the A. mississippiensis value in Therrien et al. (2005). Anyone else reading this may consider this to be my descent into madness, but right now, I see nothing wrong with thinking that a 6,000 kilogram Tyrannosaurus couldn't bite 15.915 times harder than an alligator weighing ~20 times less than itself, ergo over 300 kN and ~5 times its body weight. After all, a 100 kg jaguar can bite about as hard relative to its own weight as well (Rose et al., 2012). But because I recognize that people believe that an in vivo Tyrannosaurus would bite far less than this, I'm willing for others to prove me wrong. Edited by Ausar, Dec 20 2017, 06:34 AM.
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| HerpestidaeB4Cat | Jan 16 2017, 07:32 AM Post #49 |
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Herbivore
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i was going to pick the cantosaurus but after reading other peoples post i am picking the allosaurus |
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| Soopairik | Jan 16 2017, 09:01 AM Post #50 |
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Carnoferox's sex toy
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You sure seem impressionable. What's your honest opinion on this? |
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| MarlinMan133 | Jul 10 2018, 02:11 AM Post #51 |
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Autotrophic Organism
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I HAVE REVIVED THIS THREAD TO SAY: Allosaurus wins, what really can Carnotaurus do? |
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