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Borson's Mastodon v Triceratops horridus
Topic Started: Aug 3 2013, 10:07 PM (3,564 Views)
Taipan
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Borson's Mastodon - Zygolophodon borsoni
Zygolophodon is an extinct genus of African, Asian, North American and European mammutid that lived from the Miocene to the Middle Pleistocene. It may have evolved from Tetralophodon. While collecting fossils in the Clarno Formation of Oregon during 1941, noted paleobotanists Alonzo W. Hancock and Chester A. Arnold recovered the most complete Zygolophodon skull known at the time.
Zygolophodon borsoni is a large species that was sometimes considered as a species of Mammut, and it was one of the largest terrestrial mammals of all time. With a shoulder height of about 3.9–4.1 metres (12.8–13.5 ft) and a weight of about 14–16 tonnes (15.4–17.6 short tons), it approached the size of Paraceratherium, and was heavier than several sauropod dinosaurs.

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Triceratops horridus
Triceratops ( /traɪˈsɛrətɒps/ try-serr-ə-tops) is a genus of herbivorous ceratopsid dinosaur which lived during the late Maastrichtian stage of the Late Cretaceous Period, around 68 to 65 million years ago (Mya) in what is now North America. It was one of the last dinosaur genera to appear before the great Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event. The term Triceratops, which literally means "three-horned face," is derived from the Greek τρί- (tri-) meaning "three", κέρας (kéras) meaning "horn", and ὤψ (ops) meaning "face". Bearing a large bony frill and three horns on its large four-legged body, and conjuring similarities with the modern rhinoceros, Triceratops is one of the most recognizable of all dinosaurs and the best known ceratopsid. It shared the landscape with and was preyed upon by the fearsome Tyrannosaurus, though it is less certain that the two did battle in the manner often depicted in traditional museum displays and popular images. The exact placement of the Triceratops genus within the ceratopsid group has been debated by paleontologists. Two species, T. horridus and T. prorsus, are considered valid although many other species have been named. Recent research suggests that the contemporaneous Torosaurus, a ceratopsid long regarded as a separate genus, actually represents Triceratops in its mature form. Triceratops has been documented by numerous remains collected since the genus was first described in 1889, including at least one complete individual skeleton. Paleontologist John Scannella observed: "It is hard to walk out into the Hell Creek Formation and not stumble upon a Triceratops weathering out of a hillside." Forty-seven complete or partial skulls were discovered in just that area during the decade 2000–2010. Specimens representing life stages from hatchling to adult have been found. The function of the frills and three distinctive facial horns has long inspired debate. Traditionally these have been viewed as defensive weapons against predators. More recent theories, noting the presence of blood vessels in the skull bones of ceratopsids, find it more probable that these features were primarily used in identification, courtship and dominance displays, much like the antlers and horns of modern reindeer, mountain goats, or rhinoceros beetles. The theory finds additional support if Torosaurus represents the mature form of Triceratops, as this would mean the frill also developed holes (fenestrae) as individuals reached maturity, rendering the structure more useful for display than defense. Individual Triceratops are estimated to have reached about 7.9 to 9.0 m (26.0–29.5 ft) in length, 2.9 to 3.0 m (9.5–9.8 ft) in height, and 6.1–12.0 tonnes (13,000–26,000 lb) in weight. The most distinctive feature is their large skull, among the largest of all land animals. The largest known skull (specimen BYU 12183) is estimated to have been 2.5 metres (8.2 ft) in length when complete, and could reach almost a third of the length of the entire animal. It bore a single horn on the snout, above the nostrils, and a pair of horns approximately 1 m (3 ft) long, with one above each eye. To the rear of the skull was a relatively short, bony frill, adorned with epoccipitals in some specimens. Most other ceratopsids had large fenestrae in their frills, while those of Triceratops were noticeably solid. The skin of Triceratops was unusual compared to other dinosaurs. Skin impressions from an as-yet undescribed specimen show that some species may have been covered in bristle-like structures, similar to the more primitive ceratopsian Psittacosaurus.

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Dinopithecus
Aug 2 2013, 02:18 AM
Triceratops horridus vs. Zygolophodon (or Mammut) borsoni.
Edited by Taipan, Oct 15 2017, 05:42 PM.
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LionClaws
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Trikes had insanely durable heads. I don't think tusk blows to the head are going to be doing much. I can't see the elephant being able to "lock up" anything with those ridiculous tusks, nor do I think that they would give the elephant sufficient leverage to flip anything.
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Nergigante
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I meant it would hit sideways of the body, you do not even explain how also not explaining about not being capable to lock with the horns, and evidence that it could not flip it sideways.
Edited by Nergigante, Oct 19 2016, 03:11 AM.
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Carnotaur
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I don't think those tusks would be effectively used as weapons against similar sized opponents.They look to fragile to lift anything that size,and is abnormally long,making it vulnerable to breaking if it got in struggles with another big creatures.
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Spartan
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Hard to say, the elephant is twice as large, but has far less impressive weaponry.
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Nergigante
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Quote:
 
I don't think those tusks would be effectively used as weapons against similar sized opponents.


They are not the same size...

Quote:
 
.They look to fragile to lift anything that size.


Check the photos I posted.

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,and is abnormally long,making it vulnerable to breaking if it got in struggles with another big creatures.


They should have been easily snapped by orher males, however I do not know found any meaning they can resist impact and since when do triceraptops just run straightforward to lock horns? Its more like they just locked horns amd pummeled.
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Carnotaur
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"They are not the same size..."

I didn't said they were the same size.

"and since when do triceraptops just run straightforward to lock horns?Its more like they just locked horns amd pummeled."

And when I said that?

"Check the photos I posted."

I checked the photos you posted,and it don't change much for me.They still look very elongated and straigth for a tusk.
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LionClaws
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EmperorElephant
Oct 19 2016, 03:10 AM
I meant it would hit sideways of the body, you do not even explain how also not explaining about not being capable to lock with the horns, and evidence that it could not flip it sideways.
It all comes down to leverage. A typical African elephant has tusks, what? One or two meters long? This one has tusks four meters long. Ergo, this animal has, at best, half of the leverage of a modern African elephant. I just can't see it performing similar feats with such unwieldy tusks.
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Ausar
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While I'm not saying I favor Triceratops, I really fail to see how lateral swings from those elongated tusks will be particularly damaging. Their elongated shape does not look like it could handle the stresses incurred from such attacks very well, so it either hits with less force to prevent the tusks from breaking (which won't be very damaging) or it hits hard and breaks them. The length of the tusks also creates high moments of inertia, increasing the amount of force necessary to swing them to the sides.
Edited by Ausar, Oct 19 2016, 07:15 AM.
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Thergi
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At parity, T. Horridus, comfortably, but if the proboscid was really over 14 tonnes on average, then I'd give it to the elephant on average, and also at max.
Edited by Thergi, Oct 19 2016, 08:08 AM.
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Lightning
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According to this study, the average borson's mastadon was 14 tons to 18 tons and the very largest, record sized individuals might have reached a stagerring 28 tons:

https://www.app.pan.pl/archive/published/app61/app001362014.pdf

On page 19

The mastadon's gargantuan size advantage is too damning for the triceratops. The mastadon wins.
Edited by Lightning, Apr 11 2018, 05:48 AM.
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Mammuthus
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Yeah Mammut borsoni is the second heaviest Proboscidean ever known, it is too large for the Triceratops to defeat more often than not.
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