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| Polar Bear v Gaur | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 6 2013, 08:13 PM (8,931 Views) | |
| Taipan | Nov 6 2013, 08:13 PM Post #1 |
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Polar Bear - Ursus maritimus The polar bear (Ursus maritimus), a bear native to the Arctic, is the apex predator within its range. Its thick blubber and fur insulate it against the cold. Its fur is hollow and translucent but usually appears as white or cream coloured, thus providing the animal with effective camouflage. Its skin is actually black in color, however. The bear has a short tail and small ears that help reduce heat loss, as well as a relatively small head and long, tapered body to streamline it for swimming. The polar bear is a semi-aquatic marine mammal that depends mainly upon the pack ice and the marine food web for survival. It has adapted for life on a combination of land, sea, and ice. Scientists and climatologists believe that the projected decreases in the polar sea ice due to global warming will have a significant negative impact on of this species within this century. The polar bear (Ursus maritimus) is the largest species of all bears and is the largest terrestrial carnivore on earth. Fully grown male polar bears range from 7' to 11' when standing upright, and weigh from 660 to 1,320 pounds. Females stand from 6' to 8' and weigh anywhere from 400 to 700 pounds. The largest polar bear on record was over 12' and weighed 2,210 pounds. ![]() Gaur - Bos gaurus The gaur (Bos gaurus), also called Indian bison, is a large bovine native to South Asia and Southeast Asia. The gaur has a high convex ridge on the forehead between the horns, which bends forward, causing a deep hollow in the profile of the upper part of the head. There is a prominent ridge on the back. The ears are very large; the tail only just reaches the hocks, and in old bulls the hair becomes very thin on the back. In colour, the adult male gaur is dark brown, approaching black in very old individuals; the upper part of the head, from above the eyes to the nape of the neck, is, however, ashy gray, or occasionally dirty white; the muzzle is pale coloured, and the lower part of the legs are pure white or tan. The cows and young bulls are paler, and in some instances have a rufous tinge, which is most marked in individuals inhabiting dry and open districts. The gaur is an extremely large mammal. It has a head-and-body length of 250 to 330 cm (8.2 to 10.8 ft) with a 70 to 105 cm (28 to 41 in) long tail, and is 165 to 220 cm (5.41 to 7.2 ft) high at the shoulder. The average weight is 650 to 1,000 kg (1,400 to 2,200 lb), with an occasional large bull weighing up to 1,500 kg (3,300 lb). Males are about one-fourth larger and heavier than females. ![]() _____________________________________________________________________________
Edited by Taipan, Jun 24 2017, 11:09 PM.
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| Vodmeister | Apr 2 2018, 06:39 AM Post #76 |
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Ultimate Predator
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I love how we both find the exact same video |
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| Lightning | Apr 2 2018, 06:43 AM Post #77 |
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Omnivore
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Yeah. I'm not sure if there are other videos of tigers hunting gaur. Unfortunately, tigers are not filmed as much as lions and leopards. As for the question, the gaur would probably win at average weights due to its huge size advantage. However, at similar weights, say a freak sized bear vs an average guar, the bear would win due to superior weaponry, grappling ability and killer instinct. Edited by Lightning, Apr 2 2018, 06:47 AM.
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| Warsaw2014 | Apr 2 2018, 07:15 AM Post #78 |
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Herbivore
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Emeciated gaur cow is not comparable with a full-grown gaur bull . |
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| Vodmeister | Apr 2 2018, 07:20 AM Post #79 |
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Ultimate Predator
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True, of course. A tiger is also less than half the size of a polar bear. IMO, a 600 kg polar bear would have a 50% chance against a 1000 kg gaur, that’s just my guess. |
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| Ursus 21 | Apr 2 2018, 09:36 AM Post #80 |
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Herbivore
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I personally find wikipedia to consist of very reliable information. Regardless, in order to relieve your scepticism I have found some more data on the weights of these animals. The biggest subpopulation of polar bear, to my knowledge, are the bears living in the Foxe Basin. According to this info obtained in 2014, their average is around 580 kilograms (1,280 pounds): Source: Foxe Basin polar bear size, as well as health and condition I believe that the largest populations of gaur live in Malaysia. I obtained information about their average weights from a study called the Collection, analysis and cryopreservation of semen from Malayan gaur (Bos gaurus hubbacki). From this study I gather that these gaur average 1000-1300 kilograms (2,200-2866 pounds): Introduction The Malayan gaur (Bos gaurus hubbacki) or Seladang is mainly distributed in the tropical woodlands of Peninsular Malaysia and Southern Thailand (Lydekker, 1907). The gaurs are listed as vulnerable by the International Union for Conservation of Nature and Natural Resources (IUCN) (Duckworth et al., 2008). Their usual diet comprises of grasses, shoots and fruits. The average life span of the gaur is about 30 years. Generally, the gaur is characterised by their body length (250-330 cm), shoulder height (170-220 cm), tail length (70-100 cm) and average weight (1000-1300 kg) (IUCN, 2010). Their whole body is covered with a dark brown coat, while their lower legs vary from white to tan in colour. Source: Collection, analysis and cryopreservation of semen from Malayan gaur (Bos gaurus hubbacki) Coupled with the fact that it's around twice as heavy as the bear, the gaur has a large head, thick build and massive horns to strengthen its anterior defence: ![]() Gaur is the clear winner for me. Edited by Ursus 21, Apr 2 2018, 02:01 PM.
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| Vodmeister | Apr 2 2018, 11:03 AM Post #81 |
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Ultimate Predator
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If you want to use the largest polar bear population, it’s only fair if we also use the largest gaur population (I have no idea which one that is). |
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| Ausar | Apr 2 2018, 11:35 AM Post #82 |
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Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can! Xi-miqa-can!
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I ultimately favored an adult bull bison over a grizzly in another thread. For now I'm going to go with the gaur for its size and formidable weapons, but this is only a tentative opinion.
Edited by Ausar, Apr 2 2018, 11:35 AM.
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| Ursus 21 | Apr 2 2018, 01:59 PM Post #83 |
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Herbivore
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That's what I tried to do. I think the gaur in Malaysia tend to be the largest on average, but as for the largest specific subpopulation, I'm not sure about that either. Directly addressing this matchup, I still confidently favour the gaur. The polar bear is not even properly adapted or equipped towards taking on bovine prey, and the polar bear is vastly outmatched by the gaur in size, strength and durability. The gaur also possesses large horns, which it can use to parry the bear in defence and gore or toss the bear when attacking. The bear is not going to be able to wrestle a more powerful and stable opponent to the ground, and it would not be able to avoid the gaur's horns when biting or clawing. Btw, you're not try to suggest that a tiger ambushing an emaciated gaur cow is even remotely relatable to a polar bear fighting a full grown bull gaur in a face-to-face confrontation are you? Edited by Ursus 21, Apr 2 2018, 03:12 PM.
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| Vodmeister | Apr 2 2018, 03:12 PM Post #84 |
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Ultimate Predator
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No, but it’s a bit of a stretch to call that confrontation an “ambush” |
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| Ursus 21 | Apr 2 2018, 03:22 PM Post #85 |
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Herbivore
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Well good. Anyway, looking over it again, it seems that the gaur was peacefully grazing when the tiger leaped at her, seizing her by the throat before she was hardly aware of the tiger's presence. The tiger was fully committed to his attack and he knew where he was going, as opposed to an unsuspecting cow who was caught off guard. The tiger was also relying on stealth, concealing itself in grass in order to avoid being seen by the gaur and therefore maintaining the element of surprise when attacking a victim that was unprepared to defend herself. There was no real 'head-on' struggle between the two, it was just a tiger grabbing the throat of a gaur who was unaware of the tiger's presence. I consider it a perfect example of an ambush. It ticks all the boxes for me. If you were to argue differently, then your definition of ambush is contrast to mine. Edited by Ursus 21, Apr 2 2018, 03:23 PM.
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| Vodmeister | Apr 2 2018, 03:25 PM Post #86 |
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Ultimate Predator
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This is what I would call an ambush https://youtube.com/watch?v=DBNYwxDZ_pA The tiger-gaur video was more of an ambush that turned into a fight rather than a quick kill. Anyway we are arguing semantics here. I’m still undecided about the outcome of this match. |
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| Ursus 21 | Apr 2 2018, 03:38 PM Post #87 |
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Herbivore
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That jaguar and caiman encounter was very similar to the tiger and gaur encounter. Both cats crouched low to avoid being seen, and they crept forwards while remaining silent. Both cats concealed themselves, the jaguar concealing itself in water and the tiger concealing itself with long grass. Both cats sprang forward at close range to seize the unsuspecting prey animal by the vulnerable spot. The gaur put up a bit of a fight, as did the caiman, but it was too late because the cat in both secarios had already established a death grip. To me, both videos are perfect examples of ambushes. But yes, getting back to this hypothetical, I don't believe that a polar bear could tackle a 1,500 kilogram gaur in a face-to-face confrontation, in fact I'm surprised that other posters have argued otherwise. Edited by Ursus 21, Apr 2 2018, 04:45 PM.
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| Warsaw2014 | Apr 3 2018, 01:22 AM Post #88 |
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Herbivore
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Ok Wikipedia not always is relible source,mainly because can be edited by anyone at any time. The Malayan gaur (Bos gaurus hubbacki) or Seladang is mainly distributed in the tropical woodlands of Peninsular Malaysia and Southern Thailand (Lydekker, 1907). The gaurs are listed as vulnerable by the International Union for Conservation of Nature and Natural Resources (IUCN) (Duckworth et al., 2008). Their usual diet comprises of grasses, shoots and fruits. The average life span of the gaur is about 30 years. Generally, the gaur is characterised by their body length (250-330 cm), shoulder height (170-220 cm), tail length (70-100 cm) and average weight (1000-1300 kg) (IUCN, 2010). Their whole body is covered with a dark brown coat, while their lower legs vary from white to tan in colour. Look at this iucn http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/2891/0 Where is description that "The average life span of the gaur is about 30 years. Generally, the gaur is characterised by their body length (250-330 cm), shoulder height (170-220 cm), tail length (70-100 cm) and average weight (1000-1300 kg) (IUCN, 2010). "? Finally I found this The seladang, Bos gaurus hubbacki By by Mohd Momin Khan, former Director-General of DWNP and a well-respected figure in wildlife conservation DWNP -Department of Wildlife and National Parks Peninsular Malaysia The seladang, one of the most impressive of all the large mammals in Malaysia, has declined to about 200 animals. It is now being multiplied by captive breeding. T he cattle family includes buffaloes, bisons and seladang. The seladang of the Malay Peninsular belongs to the same species, Bos gaurus, as the gaur of India. The natural range of Bos gaurus extends from India to Nepal, and across continental South East Asia, into tropical and sub-tropical China. The population in the Malay Peninsula is considered to constitute a subspecies, Bos gaurus hubbacki, named after T.R. Hubback. Hubback was a big game hunter who served as Chief Game Warden of what was then the Game Department of Malaya, set up to regulate and issue licenses for hunting. This Department has evolved into the present-day Department of Wildlife and National Parks (DWNP), now responsible for wildlife conservation. The seladang has been popular with big game hunters for reasons that are well-expressed by Sir George Maxwell in his classic book In Malay Forests (1907): A big bull seladang, the largest and noblest of all the splendid creatures of which the tribe of oxen and bisons is composed, stands eighteen hands, or six feet, at the shoulder. But it is the animal’s massive bulk rather than its height that is impressive. The forelegs are short, and the body comes down to within two feet of the ground at the shoulder, therefore the seladang presents an expanse whose breadth and depth are most imposing, and suggestive of enormous weight and power. A big bull will weigh nearly a ton… Distinctive markings to differentiate cows from bulls are lacking and as the animals are generally met in the thick jungle, picking out the bulls in a herd is a difficult task. However, the mature bulls are certainly larger than the cows, weighing up to 900 kg compared to 600 kg for the cows. The bulls are recorded to stand up to 6 feet 4 inches at the shoulder and would stand out from the cows in a herd. An old bull seladang is a magnificent animal and almost entirely black except for his legs, which, from the knees downwards appear to be covered in cream-coloured stockings. Hubback had also seen bulls with almost white stockings. The cows are as black as the bulls, and also have cream-coloured stockings. Maybe some extra large bulls can weigth up to 1300 kg but Im not sure about that. Edited by Warsaw2014, Apr 3 2018, 02:24 AM.
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